Finnish cuckoos. "White Death" - a sniper who terrified Soviet soldiers Legendary Finnish sniper
During the Soviet-Finnish war (1939-1940), Finnish sniper Simo Häyhä terrified our soldiers ( Simo Hayha) nicknamed "White Death". This shooter was incredibly accurate, even though he didn't even use a telescopic sight. Despite the fact that the sniper acted on the side of the enemy, he became a legend in army circles.
The future sniper was born in 1905 in the small village of Rautjärvi (not far from the modern border between Russia and Finland). The main occupation of the family was fishing and hunting. Upon reaching the age of 17 Simo Häyhä participated in several sniper competitions and won prizes. This was followed by service in the Finnish army.
With the outbreak of the Soviet-Finnish war in 1939, Simo Häyhä becomes a sniper. On the first day alone, Simo destroyed 25 soldiers, and two days later the score exceeded fifty. Due to active propaganda, the fame of the invincible Finn spread far beyond the front line. The Soviet government placed a bounty on Simo's head, and the sniper himself was dubbed the "White Death".
Simo Häyhä's height was only 1.61 m, which was an advantage in his craft. The sniper dressed in all white, which made him almost invisible in the snow. Simo could stay in position for several hours, waiting for the enemy. And this at temperatures from -20 ° C to -40 ° C. Preparing the ambush site, Simo compacted the snow so that it would not scatter to the sides during the shots, giving away his location. The sniper kept snow in his mouth so that there would be no steam when he exhaled. Simo was in a better position because he knew the area like the back of his hand.
But the most surprising thing is that the marksman did not use an optical sight. Firstly, Simo believed that the glare from the sun could give it away, and secondly, at very low temperatures, the lenses of the sight froze. The weapon used by the sniper is a Finnish modification of the Mosin M / 28-30. He also had a Suomi submachine gun and a Lahti salorant M-26 machine gun in his arsenal.
During the first 100 days of the Winter War, the Finnish sniper killed more than 600 people. A detachment of Soviet elite snipers was sent to capture Simo Häyhä. On March 6, 1940, the bullet nevertheless overtook the Finn and exited through the left cheek. The sniper was evacuated. He was in a coma for several days, and when he came to his senses, his shattered jaw was restored with a bone taken from his thigh.
Simo Häyhä asked to go to the front in 1941, but due to an injury he was refused. The Finnish sniper lived a long life (96 years). He was engaged in hunting, farming. When asked about the details of the Winter War, Simo said that he was doing his duty.
The Soviet troops, for their part, also did their duty. These demonstrate that women were no less important link in bringing victory closer than men.
1939 A detachment of Red Army soldiers crossed the Soviet-Finnish border and went deep into the forest. It was hard to go - there was a 30-degree frost, and the snow fell above the knee. At the edge of the forest, I had to lie down - the Finns opened heavy fire from machine guns. The commander of the detachment was killed at the first shots. Junior political officer Ivan Kulypin ordered to put up two heavy machine guns on the flanks and return fire.
“Fifteen minutes later, I and the commander of the reconnaissance company Comrade. Mishkin noticed that among the machine gunners there were wounded. This surprised us. The fighters from the front were well covered, where are they being fired from?”, - from the memoirs of political instructor I. Kulypin. A few minutes later, one of the machine gunners received a bullet in the back of the head. “We begin to inspect the trees. The branches are dense, littered with snow. I notice that the branches of one of the fir trees are slightly swaying. I peer through the sight of a sniper rifle and see: a "cradle", and on it are legs in pies. I'm shooting. A man falls from a tree. We run up: a White Finn with a machine gun, ”from the memoirs of political instructor I. Kulypin. The war between the Soviet Union and Finland began on November 30, 1939. But already in December, a new term "cuckoos" appeared in the Red Army. Politruk Kulypin described the first case of the Finnish army using this guerrilla tactics of warfare. "Cuckoos"
Today, even military historians cannot say with certainty where this nickname came from - "cuckoos"? In an interview with the Zvezda TV channel, Dmitry Surzhik, a researcher at the Institute of World History of the Russian Academy of Sciences, told us about his version: The fighters of the Red Army, faced in Finland with such a phenomenon as conducting a single fire from positions previously equipped and disguised in the forest, whether it be a tree or a snowdrift, called their opponents “cuckoos”. Giving such a dismissive nickname, the Red Army subconsciously apparently wanted to defeat the fear that was undoubtedly present in the troops, faced with a completely new and insidious type of combat, ”says Dmitry Surzhik, candidate of historical sciences. This is far from the only explanation for the name“ cuckoo ". According to one version, the soldiers of the Finnish army, who set up ambushes, communicated with each other, imitating the voices of birds. There are other versions, but they all have one thing in common - the “cuckoos” fired mainly at the command staff of the Red Army. “The main target of the “cuckoos” were officers and generals - this is a fact. At the beginning of the Finnish war, it was not difficult to identify the Soviet commander - a sheepskin coat and a holster were the main signs, ”says Surzhik. The Finnish cuckoos were armed with machine guns and rifles. For a long time it was believed that they were all snipers.
The myth of the cuckoo snipers
Historians consider it a strong exaggeration to talk about hundreds of snipers who fought in Finland in 1939-1940. The main argument is that in those years the Finnish army was armed with only 200 sniper rifles. “Cuckoo snipers” were called everyone who fired at the commanders and soldiers of the Red Army from shelters. The accuracy of hits was very high, this is true. But the fact is that the shooting was carried out from a distance of 200-300 meters. And it was often led by militias, i.e. local residents, most of whom were excellent hunters before the war, ”says a military historian. The so-called Shutskorites actively participated in the hostilities against the Red Army. Shutskor is a Finnish paramilitary organization similar to the people's militia. Members of this organization set up watchpoints in the branches of trees (on decks) and in the attics of houses. All of them were armed, and when the enemy appeared, they immediately opened fire. They descended from the trees on a rope, got up on skis, and hid. All Finns have been excellent skiers since childhood. Winter 1939-140 was very snowy. And, of course, our fighters on foot, - that is. without skis it was impossible to keep up with such militants,” says Dmitry Surzhik.
There were stories about the "cuckoos" that they were allegedly chained to trees with chains and ropes. This is an absolute myth.
“In Karelia and Finland, as you know, there are a lot of pines. So, their branches are often located at the same level. Finnish shooters, in order to walk along branches without letting go of their weapons, in the form of insurance, tied a rope or chain around their waist. Only and everything. No one tied or chained them to the battlefield, ”explains the military historian.
Most likely, the Finnish shooters were mistaken for snipers only for the accuracy of their shots. They were also credited with "talking in bird language" - one sentinel signaled to another with the help of sounds made by birds. Such facts occurred, but in winter (birds don’t sing especially in winter, cuckoos don’t cuckoo - this is a migratory bird), the Finns used this technique extremely rarely. “The truth was that the Finnish cuckoos never“ worked ”alone. As a rule, each shooter had a gunner and an experienced demolition man. In search of the enemy, the Red Army rushed to the place of the shots, and fell into a small minefield. The death of our soldiers gave the Finnish shooter the opportunity to quickly take up a position in the neighborhood, ”says Dmitry Surzhik.
The main target of the Finnish "cuckoos" has always been the commanders of the Red Army. The losses were so great that already a month after the start of hostilities, i.e. in January 1940, officers began to appear in combat positions only in camouflage coats. Many, despite the cold, refused to wear sheepskin coats - too noticeable, which means risky. “The loss in battle even of a company commander in this war was of great importance. The soldiers did not know where to go next and what to do in general. The losses of our army, in comparison with the losses of the Finns, were very large. 150 thousand people from our side and only 19 thousand from the enemy,” says Dmitry Surzhik. As a “counterweight” to the Finnish “cuckoos”, the Red Army used artillery fire. Before each advance of the troops, the forests were fired with grapeshot. Photo: CAFM - Pansar i Vinterkriget by Maksym Kolomyjec“It was called ‘cutting the tops. But the Finns quickly changed their tactics. They began to hide in the snowdrifts. Only not simple, but artificial. From building materials or spruce branches, they built a hut, which was covered with snow. It was possible to distinguish him from the real one only after a series of shots,” says Surzhik. Only one person was officially recognized as the only real sniper during the Soviet-Finnish war - Finn Simo Hayha.
Simo Hayha, nicknamed "White Death"
Simo Haykha was born in Karelia, into a peasant family. The first time he was drafted into the army in 1925. The second - in the fall of 1939, due to the aggravation of relations between Finland and the USSR. Hayha used the Mosin M28 rifle (Pystykorva) - this is a shortened version of the three-ruler, since it more corresponded to his extremely small stature - 1 meter 52 centimeters. Simo never used an optical sight, he thought it was safer that way. No need to raise your head to the sight, and no "sunbeams". During the hostilities, he destroyed 542 Red Army soldiers. According to unconfirmed reports, the sniper also used a Finnish Suomi M/31 assault rifle. On average, Simo Hayha killed 5 Soviet soldiers per day, given the short winter day - approximately one person per hour.
On March 6, 1940, during hand-to-hand combat, he was wounded in the face, a bullet hit his jaw and tore his cheek. The Finnish orderlies who carried his body from the battlefield later said that Hayhi was practically missing half of her head. However, the injury was not fatal. Simo Hayha woke up on March 13, 1940 - the day the war ended. In peacetime, the former sniper was engaged in hunting and breeding dogs, and died quite recently - in 2002.
The lessons of the "Finnish" war The war between the Soviet Union and Finland was fleeting - it lasted only 100 days. But the Red Army gained invaluable experience during this time. "Cuckoos" taught the army a lot. And first of all, the methods and methods of conducting single aimed fire from pre-prepared positions. In an interview with the Zvezda TV channel, former sniper Sergei Chuvyrin shared his thoughts on this issue. cuckoos", who were not snipers in the truest sense of the word, were adopted not only in the Red Army, but also in the German one. And, perhaps, the most important thing here is the disguise of the shooter himself and his weapon, ”the former sniper believes. It is known that Haykha, in order not to betray his disposition in a 30-degree frost, constantly chewed snow. This technique is used by special forces to this day. “When you chew snow, steam does not come out of your mouth, let alone steam - there will not even be a light “smoke”. Of course, there is no pleasure in chewing snow in the cold, but you save your life, ”says Chuvyrin. The knowledge of the area by the Finnish "cuckoos" was also taken into service. "The Finns fought at home. The country is small, most of the locals knew how to hold weapons in their hands since childhood. All this taken together gave a huge advantage to the shooter. And it doesn’t matter where he was – in a crevice of a rock, on a tree or on the ground,” the former sniper explains. “Unfortunately, this bitter experience was not fully used during the Great Patriotic War, but it was not forgotten. And already in other wars, the commanders were dressed in the same uniform as the soldiers, and this saved many lives, ”says Sergey Chuvyrin.
Stories about hundreds and thousands of snipers are, of course, an exaggeration. There is evidence that the entire Finnish army at that time was armed with only 200 sniper rifles. It would be more correct to say that a lot of shooters fought on the Finnish side, and not snipers in the strict sense of the word. These shooters were part of the divisions of the shutskor - structures akin to our people's militia. All these people were hunters before the war, in wooded Finland every man is a hunter. The Shyutskorovites built their “nests” on hills, in the attics of houses, and much less often in trees. They often worked in pairs. While one sat with a weapon in the “nest”, the other slept in a bunker arranged below, at the foot of a tree or somewhere nearby. If the "cuckoo" was spotted, and it became necessary to leave, the shooter slid off the barrel along the rope and hid in a shelter. It was not a problem for the Finns to go into the forest on skis. The entire population of Finland are excellent skiers, the Shutskor people were both at home in the forest, and legends about instantaneous disappearances were born. The stories about snipers chained to the trunks of pines were partly generated by Soviet propaganda, which had to somehow explain the effectiveness of the Finnish shooters, partly by the fact that sometimes the shooters actually insured themselves by tying themselves to the trunk with a rope or chain. "Bird talk" snipers - also from the category of myths. It is likely that the arrows gave each other some kind of signals, imitating bird calls, but since it was winter, they hardly used the calls of the cuckoo for this, the bird, as you know, is a migratory one.
For the entire period of the Soviet-Finnish war, only one officially documented episode of the destruction of the Finnish sniper "cuckoo" is known. It was January 3, 1940. Soldiers of the 1st company of the 1st battalion of the 4th border regiment shot down the shooter. He actually sat on a tree.
Thanks to the Winter War (1939-1940), many legends have developed that support the opinion about the exceptional role of Finnish snipers. However, the main role in the war, in which the Red Army suffered losses comparable to the use of modern tactical nuclear weapons in a short time, was played by winter, Finnish ski units and enemy guerrilla tactics.
The fighting took place in a very harsh winter, when the temperature dropped to -30, sometimes -40 degrees, and the Red Army did not have a winter uniform. High snow cover of 110-125 cm, and sometimes more (skis were also not part of the equipment of the Red Army), dense forests and tank-passable areas blocked by anti-tank fortifications - all this made it necessary to conduct combat operations mainly along the roads, where the Finns actively used actions from ambush The constant attack of sabotage groups in the rear, the total mining of paths, the general participation of the population in resistance - these were the realities of an unusual, "hazing" war.
Small ski sabotage detachments of the Finns in camouflage suits, as a rule, armed with Suomi submachine guns, Lahti-Saloranta light machine guns and Molotov cocktails, having taken a successful and well-camouflaged position, at close range delivered an instant blow to Soviet units, and skillfully using the knowledge of the area, "dissolved in the snow." Their escape routes were mined and covered by snipers. The chase always ended with additional losses. The main objects of the Finnish attack were carts, individual vehicles, units on the march, small groups of soldiers, communication lines of headquarters, both in the rear of the Red Army and on Soviet territory. There were cases when the top commanders of the Red Army were also ambushed.
Finnish soldier with light machine gun "Lahti-Saloranta"
The number of professional snipers in the Finnish army was small - two three hundred. They were prepared by only one school. But many men served in the army, accustomed to hunting weapons from childhood, excellent skiing skills and hunter skills that are very close to a professional sniper: accuracy in shooting, the art of disguise, independence in decision making, excellent knowledge of the terrain and the ability to navigate. In addition, "Shutskor" operated in Finland - a paramilitary organization similar to the people's militia. The Shutskorites set up watch posts in the branches of trees (on decks) and in the attics of houses. All of them were armed, and when the enemy appeared, they immediately opened fire. Their main "trump card" was the instantaneous disappearance from the scene of the attack. Therefore, Finnish shooters were mistaken for snipers for their accuracy of shots, and their number seemed incredibly large.
Often, Finnish snipers or snipers fired from trees and gave signals to each other with bird voices, although such "negotiations" were used extremely rarely. In part, this was the name of their "cuckoos". Sitting on the branches of a century-old pine tree, the Finn waited for the appearance of a more important target and “filmed” it. There were stories about "cuckoos" that they were chained to trees with chains and ropes. In fact, the pine branches were often located at the same level. Finnish shooters, in order to walk along branches without letting go of their weapons, in the form of insurance, tied a rope or chain around their waist. The forest echo made it difficult to determine the location of the shot, so the snipers could fire several shots from one “nest”, then move to a new pre-prepared position.
"Cuckoo's Nest"
It is well known that the sniper position in a tree, despite the benefits of shooting, is very vulnerable to detection. In this case, they opened fire on her from all trunks, but the Finns came up with an effective way to save. Upon detection, a sniper on a rope descended under the cover of a thick pine trunk into a previously dug dugout, where he waited for the shelling. Sometimes, in order to calm the enemy, the Finn pulled the rope and pulled a stuffed animal in a camouflage suit from the sniper's nest, which imitated hitting the shooter. And after the shelling, he got out of the dugout, climbed a tree and again set to work. It happened that the sniper himself moved to another "nest" away from the previous one, or his partner from another position, dealt with everyone who fired, while the Red Army soldiers who shot the pine were stunned by their own shots. The Finns used it as sound cover and artillery cannonade, being away from the firing sector. The Finnish shooters sat in the trees in turn - while one looked out for prey, the other slept downstairs, in an insulated dugout. In this way, round-the-clock duty was ensured on the forest paths, which prevented the penetration of Russian reconnaissance and sabotage groups beyond the front line. Finnish snipers mainly worked in small groups, which included one or two shooters, a gunner or observer armed with a machine gun and an experienced demolitionist. The main target of the snipers were officers and generals, who were not difficult to identify at the beginning of the war: the presence of a sheepskin coat and a holster. The losses were so great that already a month after the start of hostilities, i.e. in January 1940, officers began to appear in combat positions only in camouflage coats. Many, despite the frost, refused to coats - too conspicuous, and therefore risky.
Finnish snipers in firing position
For Finnish snipers there was no difference on which side to shoot - on their own or adjacent. During the large-scale offensive of the Red Army, many Finnish snipers remained to sit disguised in the insulated Finnish "snowdrifts", not far from the predicted location of the strategically important objects of the Red Army: airfields (on lakes covered with ice), places for setting up artillery batteries, headquarters, communication centers, communications, transport interchanges , concentration of manpower, etc. As a rule, these were flat places in the forests, protected along the perimeter by terrain folds, which were quite easy to unravel. The Finns very skillfully mined the approaches to their “laying grounds”, which excluded the sudden appearance of the enemy from any direction.
The Finns showed that there is no “war according to the charter”, that any trick in the war, if it leads to the death of the enemy, is always welcome. For example, "cuckoos" from ambush shot staff vehicles with representatives of the command and the retinue accompanying them. The executions took place in different places, but according to one scenario: the Finnish shooter shot through the rear wheel, immobilizing the car, and cold-bloodedly shot everyone who was in it. Lures for wounded soldiers, more often for commanders, locking up supply columns on sledge roads, damaging communication lines and shooting repairmen, and many other methods that do not fit into the usual framework of warfare.
In the Soviet troops, after the snipers in the trees, they began to call "cuckoo" and any skier armed with "Suomi". Over time, the concept of "cuckoo" was transformed only into the legendary image of a Finnish sniper operating from a tree.
Among historians, there is an opinion that the Finnish army had only 200 sniper rifles, and the number of optical sights was scanty. However, these statements are far from the truth. The Finns did not use optics in high frosts for two reasons. She quickly covered with frost and became useless. Secondly, the Finnish shooters worked at short distances - up to 400 meters, and at the same time, an open sight gave a high rate of fire to the sniper. In addition, the Finns had so many captured Soviet weapons that several more armies could have been armed. Yes, and supplies from Europe were not small.
The Finnish industry produced three types of sniper rifles, which in terms of nomenclature was not inferior to the USSR or Germany. So, the company "Tikkakoski" and the state enterprise "VKT" in 1929-1940. the old M-91 and M-91/24 rifles were upgraded. Of the 120 thousand old rifles, 55 thousand units have been updated. A shorter, heavier barrel was installed, the trigger mechanism was replaced, and a new front sight was installed. Many rifles were equipped with various optical sights.
Firm "SAKO" in 1928-1929 upgraded the M-24 rifle, converting it to the M-28. Initially, 11.5 thousand tables were produced for it by the Swiss company SIG. Later, the trunks were produced by SAKO. For the assembly of weapons, components and parts of used rifles of modifications of early releases were used. A total of 33 thousand units were produced. Part of the issued rifles was equipped with a telescopic sight "T-30" or others available.
On the basis of the M-28 / 30 rifle, the M-39 rifle was produced by Tikka, VKT and Sako since 1939. The barrel was made in a thickened version, a new stock and a semi-pistol neck were used. In total, 98.6 thousand units took part in the war. Many rifles were made in the sniper version for various optical sights (Soviet, German, sports and hunting).
Rifle M-39 RN with optical sight
All three types of sniper rifles were close in design and performance characteristics, which did not require soldiers to be retrained from one type of weapon to another.
Thus, the number of sniper rifles produced was sufficient not only to equip the army, but also to arm the civilian population. Moreover, they properly corresponded to the climatic conditions of use, and in terms of their quality parameters they corresponded to the tactics of the Finnish army at close sniping distances.
In conclusion, it must be said that during the war, few of the Finnish snipers were killed and not a single one was captured alive. Subsequently, everything gained in practice by Finnish snipers was taken as the basis for the instructions of the Red Army and the Wehrmacht.
Remus 22-08-2005 22:40
In some old movie, a German machine gunner chained to something appeared. Once I was interested in such things in terms of the psychology of extreme situations. Everything in life is possible, but there was no reliable evidence.
bader 23-08-2005 18:25
Somewhere such a topic slipped that towards the end of the war such cases of chaining took place. I don’t know about the “cuckoos”, but I came across machine gunners in the literature. But I haven’t seen official confirmation anywhere, so it’s most likely nonsense, although .... in life, and even more so in war, anything can happen.
Mosinman 23-08-2005 21:50
The Germans practiced this even in the First World War. The idea is that first you will shoot yourself, and then, even if it comes to your mind to surrender, you will know that they will not be taken alive, because you have beaten a lot of people. Therefore, you will shoot to the end.
It seems that on the Zeelovsky Heights and the Dnieper, such machine gunners met.
ranger 02-09-2005 14:05
This is not bullshit. This is history. This was the case with the Germans in both wars and the Japanese. Moreover, even before 1941, and even in WW2 and even more so - and not only against us, but also on the islands against the amers.
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Shoot fast and think - you'll live longer... If you survive!
Sissy 18-09-2005 02:23
No, I can say quite officially that garbage. There were snipers, yes, but to a rock or a tree only if you are from a psychiatric ward. The Germans had their own grouping in Finland, but strictly under their command, and for example, their power was not extended to the Finns. It was strictly there, yes, there were many cases that German sentries fired on Finnish long-range detachments, and for this, as a rule, death followed the tribunal. In general, the Germans were poorly prepared for the warriors in these latitudes and therefore fought almost only trench battles and stood at the expense of their technical strength.
There were personal beds, yes, for example, the Finnish sniper Simo Häyhä, who had an account in the army of +500, according to some information, the exact 542 (in the Finnish army, only a partner or officer could be a witness), he used an open sight (I hope everyone understands) used at least 40 % of cases (it is worth saying that the melting in the forest is from 30-150m maximum). And it's not about cuckoos, but about the ability and choice of personnel, as a rule, loners worked. Legends were born later as well as after the First World War about German snipers.
ASlon 18-09-2005 02:35
Sissy
could you give a link (or advise other sources) with some information about this sniper. (Simo Hayha) You can even in Finnish .. I am fond of the history of the Winter War and the actions of the Finnish army in particular. I will be very grateful.
Sissy 18-09-2005 02:48
Yes, you don’t need links, just the name and surname Simo Häyhä, and then just choose the language, there are many links to English on it or on its statistics, there are opinions that there are no equals, but not Zaitsev, of course. There was no promotion for the whole world, and again, the score is not kept by soldiers, there is not enough smoke like that of fighters. If I'm short of time or too lazy, then I can sit, if there are wishes for languages, then write.
ASlon 18-09-2005 02:59
Sissy
I’m not very good with English, but I’ll try to search, there is a link by name, maybe you can indicate other sources with interesting (or little-known) facts on this issue. Really interesting.
Sissy 18-09-2005 03:07
Well, I forgot where I have it. Here is everything you need, at least according to statistics.
http://www.snipercentral.com/snipers.htm#WWII
ASlon 18-09-2005 03:26
Thank you very much! Indeed As. Strange that I had never heard of him before.
Sissy 18-09-2005 03:32
And in Finland, few people know about it. This is how it says to an amateur / connoisseur / historian or for learning.
Sissy 18-09-2005 13:12
If he asks a male from 18-30 years old, then they know who they are talking about somewhere 50/50, but I’m already silent about the female part.
Remus 18-09-2005 23:15
Then all is not lost.
Legends naturally appear later. For different reasons. According to the archives, at the beginning of the war, the Finnish army had only about 200 rifles with optical sights. Naturally, I had to turn around. Simo Häyhä himself explained the work from an open sight very simply - you need to stick your head out less.
Sissy 02-10-2005 21:29
Yes, there are enough legends, but the brightest ones are about Lauri Törni and Simo Häyhä.
apple 03-10-2005 01:13
What CAVE IGNORANCE!!! The tale of the chaining of machine gunners (snipers ???, grenade launchers ???, radio operators ???, tankers ???, pilots ???, officers of the General Staff ???) really originates in WWI. Famous "children's" uniformologists Fred and Lillian Funken (republished from AST) suggested that the legend originates from the fact that members of the machine gun crews of the German army were equipped with wide leather belts with metal carbines, designed for emergency carrying of machine guns on the battlefield . And, they say, the soldiers found the killed enemy machine gunners and, based on these belts, they made a conclusion about chaining. I don’t know how the “chained” comrades are, but after such an outrage I wouldn’t shoot, but yelled until I was hoarse: “They are shissen!!! (French) captivity!!!" But everything is much more banal. WWI was not only the first world, but also the first ideological. Some lucky journalist came up with the idea, among other inventions about the atrocities of the enemy, to ascribe to the Germans such things! And I went for a walk through the pages of various "Russian invalids" and "Niv" another fairy tale ... In their hatred, people did not want to advance further than a convenient stamp. So "The Terrible Tale" is also mentioned by the Strugatskys, the historian Rodin attributed the "rite of chaining" to the Austro-Hungarians, the director Rodin made a film in which they chained (???) a sniper (???) "finnik" in a German uniform (??? ) SS troops (???) ...
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven!
student 03-10-2005 02:51
Yeah .. One of the roots of such legends is misunderstandings, sort of like with a machine gun harness.
For example, in Krymskaya, the French press wrote that a Russian soldier is so patriotic and superstitious that he always carries a bag with his native land with him. In fact, this "land" was grated rye crackers - they fed disgustingly in the besieged city. And the legend of the native land still roams.
Sincerely, Student
Kalmar 10-10-2005 02:37
I agree that there is no point in chaining a sniper. He is a free hunter, a valuable fighter who will not be sacrificed. As for the machine gunner, it is quite possible at the request of the riveted. Like a kamikaze. To not be afraid.
apple 10-10-2005 22:16
quote: Originally posted by Kalmar:
I agree that there is no point in chaining a sniper. He is a free hunter, a valuable fighter who will not be sacrificed. As for the machine gunner, it is quite possible at the request of the riveted. Like a kamikaze. To not be afraid.On mobilization, many Finns came with their own rifles. There were not enough weapons for everyone in the army. Most are hunters. Perhaps that is why there were so many good snipers among the Finns. And civilians always have weapons of higher quality than army ones.
2. It is unlikely that army snipers were armed with their own rifles. After all, already from the middle of the 19th century, the best hunting samples were alterations of the army ones. For example, the famous "berdanka". Yes, a huge minus of mass weapons is low quality. But a giant plus is the mass production of ammunition.
student 11-10-2005 13:16
A simple aspect - the chain can be interrupted by a bullet. And you can’t fight with the chain from the Admiralty anchor. Here it is, the reason.
Sincerely, Student
Kalmar 12-10-2005 12:18
quote: Originally posted by apple:1. Still not logical. If a sniper is not allowed, then why is it possible to weld a tanker in a tank or rivet a pilot to the skin of an aircraft? Why was it necessary to spend gigantic funds and efforts on maintaining the NKVD detachments, if it was possible to learn from the experience of German comrades and chain the minelayers themselves in the trenches? Why is it possible to bring up a heap of literature on kamikaze or selflessness in general, but nowhere in serious studies do they talk about chaining? Maybe because it didn't exist at all?
So after all, no one brought the facts. All this is at the level of rumors.
quote: 2. It is unlikely that army snipers were armed with their own rifles. After all, already from the middle of the 19th century, the best hunting samples were alterations of the army ones. For example, the famous "berdanka". Yes, a huge minus of mass weapons is low quality. But a giant plus is the mass production of ammunition.
But this, excuse me, is a historical fact. The Finns came with their rifles. Just like American contractors are in Iraq today. And their weapons are much more abrupt than the army ones. I myself have a weapon of higher quality and more expensive than the army. Read what weapons the forum users own. No army will run away. Just compare the quality of match weapons and army ones.
student 12-10-2005 13:26
Gentlemen, Finland is an interesting country. With a modest military budget, there were many enthusiasts, there were also paramilitary organizations - shutskor and the women's "lotta-svard", and so they were also engaged in sports shooting. From military weapons, i.e. Mosinok. And the trunks were placed there not very simple, I mean sporting rifles. And they will be extremely stupid to argue that the sports Mosinka of a Shutskor shooter with a big name has worse accuracy than an army rifle. Meanwhile, a rifle could also be a prize at competitions, exactly the one with excellent barrel processing. And there is nothing strange if the owner or owner took their Mosinka to the front - the cartridge is the same, and the rifle itself is also an analogue of the army. At higher quality.
An analogy for the type of Soviet weapons - few people will compare the accuracy of 1891 \ 30 with AV or AVL. Although both are essentially Mosinka.
Sincerely, Student
Sergey-M 15-10-2005 16:50
Grandfather told. Before the war, they lived in a border village in western Ukraine. The bunkers of the Vladimir-Volyn UR, hastily built the day before, were located in the district. A couple of months before the start of the war, residents were evacuated hundreds of kilometers from the border, so as not to fall under the distribution. When the front line swept through them to the east and people returned to their village, in these same pillboxes they found dead Red Army soldiers chained. The name of one of these hero-machine gunners now bears the local frontier post. Maybe a fable about chains, but I heard from several eyewitnesses of those events.
By the way, the outpost then held out for a day, but there is no information about the UR.
VOYAKA 20-10-2005 07:25
Student, excuse my ignorance, but it seems to me that chains are interrupted by a bullet only in films ... Moreover, as you put it, anchors ... Correct me if I'm wrong.
Sincerely.
apple 20-10-2005 15:32
Student, excuse my ignorance, but it seems to me that chains are interrupted by a bullet only in films ... Moreover, as you put it, anchors ... Correct me if I'm wrong.
Aha! That is, the problem is not whether this is a propaganda myth, but in the thickness of the chain? Well ... Also an option !!!
bucherets 20-10-2005 16:23
quote: Originally posted by VOYAKA:
... it seems to me that chains are interrupted by a bullet only in films ...
Here in this film the hero Ville Haapsalo just tried to do it. He didn't succeed.
And if you approach the matter purely practically, what is the use of chaining a sniper. With a machine gunner still back and forth, but here's a sniper? The essence of a sniper: shot once or twice - changed position. Otherwise, they will be discovered and destroyed. Those. a chained sniper simply won't shoot.
student 20-10-2005 19:38
If a 7.62 rifle bullet calmly hits three or four millimeters of steel, then you can rivet the chain!
Another thing is that it will cut with fragments of the shell, and you can catch a ricochet. You can ... But it's better than the guaranteed death of the "chain sniper".
Sincerely, Student
pasha333 20-10-2005 19:39
Machine gunner - the same thing - if not from Ukrp. fire points - also fill up.
Well, what's the point? If they chain him up and he wants to survive anyway, it’s better to wave something white right away when they come up - there will be more chances to survive than to shoot to the last.
By the way, how many German sources I re-read - I have never seen anything like this either about ours or about theirs. About the Japanese - yes, the Finns, in my opinion, too.