Matvey Ganapolsky son Alexander. Matvey Ganapolsky explores Jewish traditions. Education and the beginning of a creative career

Radio "Vesti" host Matvey Ganapolsky is a good example of how quite, it seems, the logical prejudices of society are happily shattered against concrete human material.

It would seem, well, what to expect from a Moscow radio host who works in the same media holding with the odious newspaper Vesti?

And, nevertheless, anyone who listened to Ganapolsky's broadcasts will testify to an indisputable fact: the presenter speaks from pro-Ukrainian positions. Maybe because of the rare, as for today's Russia, habit of reflection. Or because he was born in Lvov and, by his own admission, speaks better Ukrainian than many deputies of the Verkhovna Rada. Or maybe because over the 15 years of Putin's rule, 61-year-old Matvey Yuryevich studied in detail the false information doctrine of the Putin regime?

We asked Matvey Ganapolsky about this experience in an interview for Censor.NET.

"STOPPED PREDICTING PUTIN'S ACTIONS FROM THE MOMENT OF THE GEORGIAN ADVENTURE OF 2008"

News from the "Russia in isolation" cycle is pouring in one after another. It is not the last people in Russia who are calling for the country's withdrawal from the Council of Europe and other influential international organizations. In all seriousness, they are calling! And as a teacher by education, I have an association with an outcast child, whom the rest of the children in the class do not accept - for his arrogance, rudeness, the habit of solving everything in his own way. As a result, he finally withdraws into himself, becomes dangerous to others and completely unpredictable.

You, a person with great life experience, can tell you: how can Europe, the United States make sure that this child, on the one hand, does not raise the whole class to the ears, and on the other hand, does not go into final self-isolation?

As an educator, you know that educators just talk at first; use persuasive methods. Then they make a remark, send the student to the director. Well, and then - expelled from school ...

Although I think that comparing Russia with a student is in some sense incorrect. This is a huge country with a president who should be in charge of his policies; with a huge staff of advisers, all kinds of institutions, think tanks. And it is not the problem of Europe and Ukraine that all the work of these analytical centers and the President was reduced to the fact that the President was told: you can chop off Crimea, arrange Novorossia. Now he is being told that Novorossia needs to be supported, and Russian weapons are coming there.

Once again: it's probably time to expel this student from school. And what's more, to use your vocabulary, it's time for the police to take a little look at him. Because you can not put the whole school on the ears of one person.

I believe that the decision of the Council of Europe is justified. As for resentment… well, of course, Russia takes grievances hard. And now people versed in the life of the Kremlin administration say that the Ukrainian mess is connected not so much with Ukraine as with Vladimir Putin's desire to show Barack Obama who is the first guy here. Remember, there was once a Hollywood movie "Battlefield - Earth"? Here Ukraine for Putin is just a battlefield. And here, sending the Russians to their deaths, you can endlessly wage this war - until America asks for mercy.

- America?!

I emphasize, not Ukraine - America. When America says: "Well, let's admit that you are the first guy in the village."

But it seems to me that a very important thing has happened. The world responded adequately to the attempt to revise the fundamental laws and rules of the game that guaranteed peace after the Second World War. This is Potsdam, this is a decision on the inviolability of borders. Everyone understands perfectly well that in the current turbulent times, the main problem is terrorism. And when suddenly someone says: "I will do what I want, because I am strong" - this is a colossal political problem. And if this force is not rebuffed, then the revision of borders will begin; then new rules of the game are obtained! And these rules are simple: whoever is strong is right.

But what is the main awareness of the rules of the game of our civilization? The fact that in politics there are no weak and strong. That you need to respect both those and others. That is why a united Europe is emerging, other unions, in which both large strong countries and small ones are represented. The Council of Europe appears, a supranational structure in which everyone is represented and everyone has equal rights.

Therefore, when we start talking about Putin and what he does, we are not actually talking about Putin. We are talking about the main civilizational principles of the 20th and 21st centuries: the inviolability of borders. Respect for the territorial integrity of the neighboring state. Impossibility at will - for any reason! - grab a piece of neighboring territory.

What is happening now for European countries is a new reality. Because they are not dealing with a small dismembered Yugoslavia, but with a large country with nuclear weapons. But, nevertheless, Western countries have chosen this path.

Here, you say: Putin wants to show, Putin gets up. What about understanding what it does? Over the past few months, have you felt that you can predict his actions?

Me not. It is impossible to predict the actions of Vladimir Putin. I am often asked questions: "Maybe he will go to Kyiv? Will he drop an atomic bomb?"

- Okay, when was the last time you felt like you could predict his actions?

I stopped predicting what Putin and his entourage are doing since the 2008 Georgian adventure. At that moment I was in Georgia. And I convinced my Georgian friends that, yes, threats, yes, screams. “But,” I said proudly, “at the present time, not a single politician will allow himself ... it’s like becoming a pariah country ...”. Etc.

But it turned out that I could not unravel the plans of Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. And it's terrible. Because a huge country with 145 million people; a country with a giant army and nuclear weapons - this country, in fact, carries out sporadic instructions that come into the head of one person. And for absolutely incomprehensible reasons.

And, of course, I could not imagine that there would be an attack on Ukraine. Well, is it possible in our time to chop off the Crimea? I asked myself. And he answered: no, it's impossible! It turned out it was possible. I said to myself: is it possible that all the work of the same Putin until 2014 - when there was peace-friendship with the West and high technologies went to Russia - could be crossed out like this, overnight? It turned out - it is possible.

So I get up in the morning ready for any news. Here, many people say: what kind of bombing of Mariupol was it? That's why - to have a new wave of sanctions? After all, you must admit that after the bombing of Mariupol, this outright rudeness, a chain of events that was very unpleasant for Russia followed. The same Council of Europe, where Russia is denied the right to vote; the same recognition of Russia as an aggressor country. Here, Ukraine did not recognize-now recognized.

That is, it is clear that they will not bombard their own, right? However, instead of condemning this human tragedy, Russia says that the Ukrainians did it. That is, the usual rhetoric of scoundrels. And the question arises: why is this being done? But the answer is no. Maybe Russia is playing a game of escalation. Or maybe they all went crazy. Or maybe Putin is mentally ill, but close associates are dancing around him, who say (as in the famous fairy tale about the naked king) that he is beautifully dressed ...

- And what actually ...

- ... What really - no one knows. But there are rules for conducting relations with Russia, which my friend, writer Viktor Shenderovich, wonderfully formulated. I often quote these words: "Russia understands only numerals." Here, 150 thousand gathered at Bolotnaya and Sakharov - there have been some changes in Russian legislation. Then - tightening. And now few people come out - and they are not paid attention to.

The same is true in international relations. When Europe and the United States together say to Russia "You will have to answer for your actions" and impose sanctions, and the ruble falls catastrophically - then Russia begins to somehow understand that such things should not be done. But apparently he doesn't understand much. Apparently, there are few sanctions. Because, as we see, the war in Ukraine continues.

"IN RUSSIAN SOCIETY THERE IS A STRANGE SECRET: WHAT THE LEADER IS, THE SOCIETY IS"

But where does Putin get such support from the population? Many compare the current alignment of forces with the Cold War of the twentieth century, the then revelry of Soviet propaganda - with the current Kiselevshchina. But, for example, I remember very well that even with the late stagnation, few people believed this lie. My father, a member of the CPSU, turned on the transistor at night, and I knew the call signs of Deutsche Welle and Radio Liberty by heart.

And I ask myself: why now, with the Internet and incomparably more open borders, the Russian people continue to believe what they say on the TV?

You know, there is some strange secret in Russian society. It can be formulated as follows: what is the leader, such is the society. Just remember: first there was Stalin - and there is a famous phrase of Dovlatov about that time: "Everyone says: Stalin, Stalin. And who wrote 4 million denunciations?" This is how the whole society lived: they wrote denunciations against each other.

After that, Khrushchev comes - and suddenly society changes in an amazing way. Festival of Youth and Students 1957; the same people who were looking for American spies 3 years ago rejoice at the arrival of the first black people from America. There is incredible euphoria in the country.

Then Brezhnev comes - and society changes dramatically again. Everyone is calm, good-natured, they go to the dachas. The idea of ​​friendship with the United States seems to have dissolved...

After that, Gorbachev appears - and society suddenly: how, why did we live like this before ?? How can this be? Immediately be friends, we are doing a teleconference between the USSR and America!

After that - Yeltsin: rampant democracy, the market, the first trips to the United States ...

And finally, Putin. Moreover, two Putins: the first - until 2004: we are friends, perestroika, new thinking, the continuation of all this ... And now: Putin is different - and society is different.

This is a very strange story that sociologists and sociopsychologists have to deal with. Why is this happening in society? You know, in this story, I'm not so much concerned about why people believe propaganda so much as another question: why do people in Russia, purely humanly, not feel sorry for the dying Ukrainians? Two nations lived side by side for so many years, helping each other win the Patriotic War. Why do Russians now have only a grin of malice and a desire to justify aggression? Why is there no understanding that the result of this aggression is the real death of Ukrainians and the death of their Russian soldiers?

- Well, here the answer is psychologically obvious: it is always unpleasant to feel guilty ...

But I don't care. Everyone makes his own choice - and must bear responsibility for this choice. So it was in fascist Germany - and you know that one of the sides of denazification was that the burghers, who pretended not to know anything, were forced to dig up the corpses of the executed. It was a strong move. Someday, Russian citizens will probably have to ask themselves the question: why did they condone this aggression? The death on the territory of Ukraine of almost 5 thousand people is unlikely to be forgotten by Ukraine.

This is one of the mysteries. But once again I repeat: I do not want to understand this. Everyone makes their choice. And, for example, I have absolutely no pity for the unfortunate, in quotation marks, residents of Donetsk and Lugansk.

- Why?

Because Girkin came to them and said: "You will have a wonderful life under Putin. Go and vote." And they voted. They thought everything would be easy and simple. But they were betrayed by everyone, including Putin, who did not need this Luganda, as it is called. Therefore, when they are now moaning: "God, what is happening? Let this war end soon," are they talking to whom, Putin or Poroshenko? First of all, they should say it to themselves! It was they who, by their vote, brought war to their region. I feel sorry for them as a human being, because their lives have been destroyed. Many were killed, property was stolen and "squeezed out" by bandits. But where did it all start? Since they believed the crooks. And rogues are different. There is Mavrodi, with whom you only lose money. And there is Girkin, who, like a pied piper, plays: "Putin, Putin" ...

- There are thieves and there are robbers. Some will only get into your pocket, others will also give you a blow on the head.

Quite right.

Due to what is happening, over the past year, several contacts with my Russian acquaintances have self-destructed. And you?

Yes, I have a few people - and I'm at a great loss what to do with them. They are on my Facebook; and they are my friends. And they repost only frankly negative pro-Russian materials.

- And how do you react to it?

I don't write anything, I don't address them. But I don’t throw them out of my friends: apparently, I hope that someday this madhouse will end. I have only three of them; Basically, my friends are people who understand that it is impossible to fight with a neighbor, that this is a conflict for centuries.

"DIFFERENT TEAM AND DIFFERENT PEOPLE WHO PERCEIVE LIFE DIFFERENTLY IN VESTI NEWSPAPER AND VESTI RADIO"

You work at the Vesti-Ukraine radio station, which here is associated, firstly, with the radio station of the same name in Russia; and secondly, with the newspaper "Vesti", to which many people in Ukraine have a negative attitude, to put it mildly. Personally, I believe that the content of the radio "Vesti-Ukraine" and the newspaper "Vesti" are fundamentally different from each other. But this is my opinion. And on the air, in the supermarket, on the street, do you ever hear in your address: "Moskal filthy, get out of here!"?

No, this has never happened. Firstly, it is impossible for me to say this, because I was born and raised in Lviv and I know the Ukrainian language better than many deputies of the Verkhovna Rada. I know him just perfectly, with several dialects. Therefore, whose Ukraine is still a big question. This is my homeland, so I ended up here at this hour. I ended up where I needed to be. And I work where I see fit. And I - here I must thank my audience - are perceived quite adequately.

As for the difference between the newspaper "Vesti" and the radio "Vesti", they are really different - but because different teams work and different people who perceive life differently. And there's nothing you can do about it. Our team perceives life one by one. The newspaper "Vesti" perceives it in its own way. And you can't blame her. On the contrary, I would admire the fact that the management of the holding is completely calm about such discord. After all, no one calls us, no one gives any instructions.

I am often told: "You are, of course, good, it is interesting to listen to you, you are so pro-Ukrainian... And who are your owners?" And I always answer this: "Yes, I don't give a damn who my owners are."

- Even if the names of Kurchenko, Klimenko are called?

It always makes me smile. Well, let's imagine that our owner is Yanukovych and his entourage. Then it turns out that an amazing time has come when we scold Yanukovych for Yanukovych's money; when we scold Kurchenko for Kurchenko's money! It turns out that the dream of freedom of the media has really come, you know?

That is why I am completely indifferent to this. I have a contract with the radio station, which provides for non-interference in my work. And if there are elements of interference, then radio listeners will be the first to know about it. And it is unlikely that I will then work at a radio station.

All our employees work absolutely freely, without any instructions what to do. And my friends work here, with whom we worked together on Ekho Moskvy. The thing is, we were brought up in a certain way. This year "EM" will be 25 years old. And over these 25 years, we got used to not being given any instructions. To the credit of the holding's management and its head, Igor Guzhva, there have never been any instructions in the history of how we should speak and what programs should be made.

Radio is a business. We were given a business task - to bring the radio station to the forefront. In 10 months we have made the radio station a leader, introduced the radio listeners of three cities - Kyiv, Kharkov and Dnepropetrovsk - to a new genre (although there are talk radios in Kyiv). And, in particular, two broadcasts of your obedient servant takes first place among all radio stations in the city of Kyiv.

Therefore, we completed the business task that was set before us even ahead of schedule. Actually, it has a deadline.

You said that the staff of the radio station does not receive instructions from above how and what to say. But weren't there such conflicts that the team was asked to call the militia people whom the majority of the Ukrainian media called at least separatists?

No, I don't know anything about it. But there is another problem here. The fact is that in Ukraine there is no such clear system for informing the media about some decisions of the authorities. Well, for example, how to call these people who are fighting in the "DNR" and "LNR"? We received absolutely conflicting instructions. Now we call them simply and uncomplicated: terrorists. In any case, this is how I do it ... But at first it was not at all clear how to relate to them. After all, do not forget that a normal referendum was held, you understand? That is, at first it looked like a territory where they want to somehow live ... and then it degenerated into what degenerated ...

- Come on, Matvey, what kind of referendum was that? There is a lot of evidence that it was and how it was carried out ...

You need not object to me, because I do not argue with you. Once again: to unify such a situation, there is an editor-in-chief. He gathers people and says: guys, let's think about how to call these people. And we met several times so that there would be no disagreement. Because the attitude towards these people is the same throughout the editorial office. We just received very conflicting instructions from the authorities. And we are obliged to strictly comply with Ukrainian legislation, you understand?

Now everything has become simpler and clearer. Now everyone understands perfectly well who these people are; they are either terrorists, or separatists, or, excuse me, bandits, speaking unofficially. Now everything has become easier. Previously, we simply did not understand the signals of power. I mean not the authorities of the holding, but the authorities of the country. How does the government treat these people? And the authorities themselves did not know what to call them. And these "terrorists", this harsh rhetoric, appeared much later. Because at the beginning there were talks about the fact that "there is no need to insult them", it is necessary to negotiate with them. But now it is already clear what kind of negotiations. Bandits, they are bandits.

"I HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON WITH PUTIN'S RUSSIA AND HIS ENVIRONMENT"

Your spouse is Georgian, while you were born and studied in Lvov, you graduated from college in Kyiv. And at the same time, both of you are citizens of the Russian Federation. Is this how your family understood it that since 2008, the state of which you are a citizen has successively attacked two of your native countries? How do you feel when you think about it?

You know, you asked a very difficult question. Of course, it was taken hard. And at some point ... here it is necessary to formulate correctly ... (thinks for a long time. - E.K.) ... you know, I always emphasize on the air that I love Russia very much. Of course, his Russia, not Putin's. For me, 15 years of Putin are 15 years of losses. This is 15 years of backwardness and degradation. This is 15 years of bullying of citizens - and especially in recent years, with the help of Russian television. This is the awakening in citizens of the lowest and meanest, such that civilization always hides somewhere in the depths. It is a system of lies that has become state doctrine.

You ask: why am I talking about this? And because everyone has their own Russia. I have nothing to do with Vladimir Putin and Russia, which attacked first Georgia and then Ukraine. (It is my position that she attacked). I have my Russia, the Russia of my friends. Russia of my streets, Russia of parks. Russia "Ekho Moskvy" and my colleagues who work there. I asked myself: who is this man Vladimir Putin? And I answered myself: this is a man for whom I have never voted and who has never represented my interests. Because he is a president only for his own. In recent years, he realized that he still would not convince Navalny's supporters to love him, Putin. That's why he became the president of this motorcyclist, what's his name?..

- "Surgeon".

- "Surgeon". He's the president of the "Surgeon"! And I have with this man and his Russia, with the Russia of his entourage, these terrible black people who sing along, pump up, lie and turn upside down and who have turned the centuries-old joint history and love between the Russian and Ukrainian people into the dust of their nasty, petty, empty and meaningless interests - I have nothing in common with these people. Therefore, I am very calm about Russia when I come to her. You know, when you walk along a Moscow street, probably a thousand people pass around you in a minute. But these are a thousand strangers, they have nothing to do with me! I learned to abstract and love in Moscow and Russia exactly what this country attracted me to before Putin - almost more than 30 years. She has a lot to love. But now there is nothing to love Russia for. Anyway, me.

There is a war going on in Ukraine. And since spring, people in Ukraine have been asking each other the question: what if Putin sends troops to Kyiv? In your case, I will ask this question from a different angle: what will you do with such a development of events? Will you stay on the air here in Kyiv? Or will you be forced to return to Moscow?

It is difficult to answer this question. As long as possible, I will be here in the editorial office, because this is stipulated by the contract. You may be surprised by such a formal answer, but there are two golden rules. The first says: "If you don't know what to do, go to bed." And the second: "If you don't know what to do, act according to the Constitution."

I say: if you don't know what to do, act according to the contract. That's all!

Evgeny Kuzmenko for Censor.NET

Former General Producer of NewsOne Aleksey Semyonov is moving to a position of the same name at the Tonis TV channel. This information was confirmed by Detector Media. Semyonov noted that during the meeting with the General Director of the Tonis channel Alexander Butko, an agreement was reached on the beginning of cooperation and the policy of non-interference in the work of the channel's editorial office was discussed.

Now, according to Semenov, contracts are being prepared, after signing which, he will officially become the general producer of the channel. “This is the first time I'm getting the opportunity to work on a channel with good coverage. I will be the general producer from the moment I sign the contract, ”Semenov said. Semenov did not answer the question about the sources of financing of the channel and its rebranding, he only noted that negotiations with potential investors are ongoing.

“Today, Butko and I have already entered into several negotiations with potential investors. The development of the channel will be, ”he said.

Also, the future general producer Tonis stressed that the updated channel will not compete with the news channels 112 Ukraine and NewsOne: The time has come not only for the form, but also for the content, and the revival of the Rodnyansky spirit.”

A new team is already being formed at Tonis, the main figures of which will be Semyonov, as well as TV presenters Evgeny Kiselev and Matvey Ganapolsky, who left NewsOne together. Earlier in the media, the Tonis TV channel was often associated with the son of the former president, Alexander Yanukovych. Last year, the channel officially changed its ownership structure, and in fact bought itself from the owner, Czech citizen Peter Zika.

The leader of the Radical Party, Oleg Lyashko, connected the dismissal of Ganapolsky, Kiselev and Semenov not with the language issue, but with a direct instruction from Bankova. In his opinion, the leadership of the popular NewsOne channel in the country was threatened in the presidential administration of Ukraine, and Semenov was even promised to be expelled from the country with his “Russian passport” if he did not adhere to censorship.

Ukrainian political analyst Volodymyr Manko said that Semyonov and TV presenters considered the Tonis TV channel, which is familiar to many Ukrainians, but does not shine with ratings, as an alternative. “They will cost the channel not cheaply - over 50 thousand dollars a month,” Manko said, referring to insiders. At the same time, according to his information, Tonis is ready to pay such a price in order to become competitors to NewsOne and the 112 Ukraine TV channel.

Colleagues in the workshop took this news with ridicule. “Motya and Kisel found their“ new ”project on the old Tonis, a dull provincial canal ...,” editor-in-chief Irina Gavrilova laughed on the social network, hinting opaquely that recently Tonis survived at the expense of obscene films.

Blogger and journalist Oleg Ponomarev also could not resist the caustic irony. “Ganapolsky and Kiselev went to Tonis. Did you know that they are showing on Tonis from 22.00? — he illustrated his post with a spicy screenshot.

Military observer Yuri Dudkin noted that Muraev paid Ganapolsky "25 thousand greenbacks per month." “They say that the arrogant Moscow Lviv resident, as the face of the channel, would not agree to anything less,” he shared rumors on the social network. According to him, “the ultimate owners of the Tonis TV channel are Alexander Yanukovych and Sergey Arbuzov. The latter is the ex-head of the National Bank of Ukraine, who is also in disgrace. “So what?” You say. And rightly so. Dollars have the same color everywhere. The difference is in their numbers,” Dudkin decided.

Others joined in the mocking discussion. At the same time, many are sure that Alexander Yanukovych is directly related to the Tonis TV channel, whom the people prefer to call Sasha the Dentist, taking into account his education. Opponents believe that Tonis belongs to the oligarch Viktor Pinchuk. There is a version that the mentioned persons divided the channel 50 to 50, that is, they now own it jointly.

Ordinary users are confused about the new format in which Kiselev and Ganapolsky will broadcast: they will adhere to the Yanukovych-Arbuzov line, sing along to Pinchuk, or diversify the traditional content of the Tonis nightly broadcast.

A. NASIBOV - Greetings. At the Echo of Moscow microphone Ashot Nasibov. And we start the next lesson at the "School of the Young Father" on the night of Thursday to Friday at our traditional time. Nikolai Kotov works at the director's console. Greetings, Nikolay. Thanks. You are in the right place at this hour with us. I decided to invite today as a father, not as the host of Ekho Moskvy, an employee of Ekho Moskvy, the host of programs, Matvey Ganapolsky. Matvey Yurievich, I greet you.

M. GANAPOLSKY - Good evening, Ashot.

A. NASIBOV - I specifically decided to invite Matvey Ganapolsky today because you all know Mr. Ganapolsky as the host of Ekho Moskvy. But what is the other side of the life of Matvey Yurievich, hidden from all of us? How does Matvey Yuryevich behave during off-duty hours? How is his relationship with the children? How do children develop a relationship with our famous host? I am going to ask all these questions to Matvey Ganapolsky today and I ask you, dear listeners, to join. Let me remind you the number of the on-air pager 725-66-33. And in the afternoon we will take a few phone calls. I beg you (the only thing) - to limit your questions to the relationship between fathers and children, the problems of the Ekho Moskvy radio station itself, as well as the spaces surrounding us, have nothing to do with this, at least not directly. Before we start our conversation, I want to traditionally say right away that we are discussing subtle intimate issues of family relationships, you have every right not to answer any of my questions or all questions together.

M. GANAPOLSKY - I will actively use it, because this transmission is somehow dangerous. I understand that basically we will talk about some principles of education, which are probably important, and some personal things are some personal things, no one needs to know about them.

A. NASIBOV - Let me disagree. The hosts of Ekho Moskvy are already public people, they are already involved in the formation of public opinion. The people have a right to know.

M. GANAPOLSKY - No, the people have no right to know.

A. NASIBOV - Has.

M. GANAPOLSKY - The people have no right to know anything. The people have the right to know exactly what I consider it necessary to say in this program on the topic on which you invited me. And here's what I think that the people should not know, this people will not know.

A. NASIBOV - Your choice is your will. You are a guest - the owner of the studio. As Gilyarovsky wrote, "you take the wine, you will be the master."

M. GANAPOLSKY - Uncle Gilyai was right.

A. NASIBOV - Let's start with autobiographical details. How old are you? Our traditional questions that we always ask all guests.

M. GANAPOLSKY - I will be 52 on December 14th. I was born in the 53rd year in the city of Lvov, for which I am constantly sent to Ukraine, so that I finally leave Russia and go to “my Ukraine”, without interfering with the Russians building a bright, joyful life here.

A. NASIBOV - These details could just not be given.

M. GANAPOLSKY - But I'm a guest! And he is the owner.

A. NASIBOV - Good. How many children?

M. GANAPOLSKY - I have three children. Son from first marriage. This is my wife's son.

A. NASIBOV - How many marriages are there?

M. GANAPOLSKY - Two.

A. NASIBOV - This is your second marriage now, right?

M. GANAPOLSKY - Yes.

A. NASIBOV - Is the son from your first marriage your son?

M. GANAPOLSKY - No, the wife's son.

A. NASIBOV - From her first marriage, or what?

M. GANAPOLSKY - From her first marriage.

A. NASIBOV - I understand. But this is not your son?

M. GANAPOLSKY - No. But the person whom I brought up from the age of 5 is my son.

A. NASIBOV - This is the son of the second wife from her first marriage, right?

M. GANAPOLSKY - Why the second wife? First.

A. NASIBOV - I see, but did you bring him up?

M. GANAPOLSKY - From the age of 5.

A. NASIBOV - And you continue to this day?

M. GANAPOLSKY - A person who is already 24 years old is difficult to educate. Now just some advice if he needs it.

A. NASIBOV - It is necessary to put them in such a way that they are needed (advice).

M. GANAPOLSKY - No, you don't have to put it like that. I have my own understanding of what a small person is and my own understanding of how to raise a child, it may be erroneous, but this is my understanding of a purely individual. There is a certain set of principles that is important.

A. NASIBOV - And two more?

M. GANAPOLSKY - Two more from the second marriage. My wife Tamara, she is Georgian, plunged me into the abyss of this Georgia, this incredible country. She is 100% Georgian with all the pluses and minuses of this nation, very hot, just as poetic at the same time, very specific. And I have two kids there. There I have Katya, who is now 6 years old, and Sasha, who is 2 years old, probably, will now be 4 months old.

A. NASIBOV - This is already the first reaction to your age. Lyuba says, you can't tell, she would give 45. Lyuba has a crush on our guest today.

M. GANAPOLSKY - Lyuba, thank you.

A. NASIBOV - Katya is 6 years old, Sasha is 2.5 (2.4) years old, although every month at this age gives a very large value. You remarried late, I understand?

M. GANAPOLSKY - It's rather late, one might say.

A. NASIBOV - When you made the decision to have children, you measured your age and the age of your future children or unborn child. What is your attitude and the attitude of your wife to this?

M. GANAPOLSKY - Since my wife is much younger than me (she is 18 years younger than me), it was a courageous act on her part to marry me. Of course, I'm a wonderful husband, it's clear to the horse. But some individual young women may understand that there is a certain risk in this, because as long as the spouse is capable ... But you need to be realistic and sober about yourself, if this is not a marriage of convenience, if it is a marriage of convenience, then everything is clear, the husband simply rushes at a certain age. We here, unfortunately, at Echo know a couple of sad cases, I won’t name them, when people in old age were very sorry that they took this step.

A. NASIBOV - Married the young, in the sense, right?

M. GANAPOLSKY - Yes, and everything was fine until old age crept up, which awaits each of us. So after that came a bitter disappointment. So it's kind of weird to me. I had two loves at first sight: for my first wife and for my second.

A. NASIBOV - Dovlatov said, "I was married twice, both times happily."

M. GANAPOLSKY - Probably, the old man Dovlatov was right. This is such a very strong test for an already adult person who understands that behind this there will be a psychological addition to his wife ...

A. NASIBOV - ... plus it will be necessary to adapt to a new person, which is aged ...

M. GANAPOLSKY - No, not at the age. There are people who are quite conservative, you can’t say the same about me. I take a different point of view, but marriage is a special story. Still, it was clear that this would be a special test. I am delighted that my wife made such a decision. As a result, children appeared - our happiness. They appeared, and all questions disappeared by themselves. We swear, we sort things out, but we raise the children, which all parents do. And what about such late fatherhood - it has its own minus, because it is unlikely that I will be able to see my grandchildren. I am perfectly aware of this. On the other hand, these two creatures, until my extreme old age, I hope, will brighten up my life. I have a lot of people I know who have families according to the classical construction. Imagine this. My Mishka is now 24 years old. If everything were as it is written somewhere in the divine tablets, if there were no changes in my life ... In general, a family: children grow up and leave, and relatively young parents remain on their own. This is a giant psychological test for them. Love for this produces some strange metamorphoses with it. And it changes, the first ardor disappears. If people are flat, one-dimensional, especially if their marriage all their life, except for the “grooming” period, was determined only by love for children, then then they are left alone with themselves. More often than not, marriages break up. Or he is sad. I will not have such anguish, except that my wife is a very bright person, rich in all sorts of ideas, which I even sometimes get scared of. I start waving my hands, she says, well, I just suggested. I'm saying that it doesn't take very long for you to go from the proposal to the implementation of this idea. No, I just suggested. Even gets upset sometimes. Kids: Sasha will be 22, and I will be 73 if I live. This is happiness, because this little man will grow with me. It was not in vain that we took the topic that "Children are like grandchildren." I have a strange relationship with them. I look at them with incredible surprise and with some special feeling. And the feeling of fatherhood in me is mixed with a hint of "grandfathering", not army, but normal, because it's amazing when these two scarecrows walk around the apartment.

A. NASIBOV - Tell me, please, when you made the decision to have children, did you think about ... you said correctly, you are now 52 years old, the child is 6 years old, will you have time to put the children on their feet before you are no longer able to do this : relatively speaking, will you retire, will you sit with a fishing rod somewhere in the country? At some age, you will no longer have the strength to put children on their feet, to give them a push.

M. GANAPOLSKY - The position of the other side, that is, the position of the spouse, is very important here. Of course, many marriages break up because people do not have children. Although we know that modern medicine is capable in flasks, test tubes, etc. - it's true, I'm not being ironic, I know these doctors. I invited them to air.

A. NASIBOV - I do not feel irony in your words, because I know that this is quite possible.

M. GANAPOLSKY - You see, here's the story, here a lot depends on the wife. These questions, although when we got married, we perfectly understood that children were needed.

A. NASIBOV - How many years have you been married?

M. GANAPOLSKY - We have been married for 7 years. More than seven years, the eighth year has gone. There was a very delicate moment here, it was immediately clear that my wife was a young woman, so it was somehow without children ... Therefore, it immediately became clear that we would give birth to children.

A. NASIBOV - Was this your wife's first marriage?

M. GANAPOLSKY - Yes, this is my wife's first marriage. At this moment (this was a very important moment) her support, her (if I may say so, if the word "fatal" can be used in a positive sense) some kind of fatalistic decision. The fact is that Georgians are such a special people, I already know this nation well, I went through the crucible: fire, water and copper pipes, not always pleasant ...

A. NASIBOV - We will talk about it.

M. GANAPOLSKY - I don't know if we will talk about this topic. There is such a moment. Like a Georgian feast: we talked a little, and then sang. These people combine some kind of pragmatism, about 30% of it ... No, 60% of romanticism and another 10% of recklessness. In addition, she is a believer in me, so she immediately said that the Lord would not let the children perish. After all, she perfectly understands that the moment will come when she will be left alone with not yet very adult children, but she decided on this. Everything.

A. NASIBOV - 725-66-33 - telephone of the on-air pager "Echo of Moscow". I ask listeners to ask questions to Matvey Ganapolsky, who plays an unusual role today.

M. GANAPOLSKY - Why questions? We are having a wonderful conversation.

A. NASIBOV - We include listeners. Listeners have the right to vote. After all, we work for them.

M. GANAPOLSKY - Yes, they have no right in the conversation that we are having.

A. NASIBOV - Please leave this remark until the moment when you will be the host of the program. Now you are a guest. I have a different point of view on this matter. When you made the decision to get married and have children, did you think about interethnic relations, that the children would have different nationalities of the parents? And what was the attitude of your relatives and your wife's relatives to this?

M. GANAPOLSKY - The most remarkable thing. In general, everyone knows very well that in the same way as I condemn (I am a very consistent person). Just as I am deeply disgusted by the discussion of interethnic relations in a negative sense on the air of the Ekho Moskvy radio station, it was just as strange for me if someone suddenly began to say that she was Georgian, and he was not Georgian. We are old enough to make our own decisions. In general, we somehow agreed when we got married that we would marry each other, and not relatives. Although in Georgia, relatives in the life of a family (the big concept of “family”) occupy a very important place, but here my wife turned out to be a very consistent person, I really am married to her, and not to, say, my mother-in-law, although my mother-in-law is absolutely wonderful man, and my wife's brother is a wonderful talented person. Just some tacit or semi-vocal decisions that were made by us. You know, like a marriage contract without a contract. It is very important to agree on some things on the shore, so as not to get into trouble later. And we try to keep to this line. Therefore, when my mother, God bless her, she is already 78 years old, when she begins to give some practical advice, comments, remarks, I cut them off from my wife, and, accordingly, my wife gives some advice from that side, recommendations also cut off . I call it the "sanitary zone of the family." This is one of the keys to a healthy family life. You need to understand that you live together. It is very dangerous, in my opinion, and I have seen many such examples, when you take relatives as mediators in some conflicts, you must remember that even if you have quarrels (in any case, this is my principle), then, in in the end, relatives don't decide anything, you decide.

A. NASIBOV - And your friends?

M. GANAPOLSKY - The same. No friends.

A. NASIBOV - Evgenia sent the following message: “I read somewhere that half-breeds are smarter than pure-bloods. Take me, for example." Signed "Eugene". On the example of your children?

M. GANAPOLSKY - It's absolutely ... fascist - I can't say. I don't like the spirit of it. I don’t even know what a “half-breed” is, how to understand this? Does this mean that a piece of blood is a little redder and the other a little paler?

A. NASIBOV - I don't know what I had in mind for Evgenia in this case. Do grandparents take their children?

M. GANAPOLSKY - My grandparents can only do this virtually, because they all died in the war, I have no one left.

A. NASIBOV - No, I don't mean your kids, I mean your wife's parents, for example, or your mother.

M. GANAPOLSKY - My deeply beloved mother-in-law is now in Tbilisi, and we are taking care of the children.

A. NASIBOV - No, well, sometimes she takes children with her? Did you take the children to Tiflis?

M. GANAPOLSKY - Of course, Katya went to Tiflis, went to kindergarten there. They took her to kindergarten. She began, not understanding a word of Georgian, to build children. She's so lively, like me. She began to build children who did not understand a word in Russian. And it needed to be seen. I was told how she is in this group, big boys, you know, who already have legs with hair, how she them ... let's play ...

A. NASIBOV - I know from my own experience that this is not an indicator.

M. GANAPOLSKY - You get up here, you are here, come here. And they, stupidly looking at her, carried out. I now understand what the meaning of Russian hegemony is. Yes, really big brother. In this case, she was the older sister. She ruled them all. Arrived, spoke Russian with amazing Georgian melody.

A. NASIBOV - How long did she spend there?

M. GANAPOLSKY - Oh, she spent almost 3 months there.

A. NASIBOV - It was at what age?

M. GANAPOLSKY - Last summer.

A. NASIBOV - So she was 5?

M. GANAPOLSKY - Like this. Came all full of impressions. At the same time, there were phone calls all the time, dad, how I miss you, but I clearly linked her arrival to Moscow with a lot of gifts. In general, she told me one phrase. She is now annoyed, like every small child, but already a little man. I made some remark to her. She told me papa, do you know what a father should do? I say what should a father do? He must love his daughter and constantly give her gifts. The word "permanently" struck me here. I imagined...

A. NASIBOV - Didn't the “should” surprise you?

M. GANAPOLSKY - No, it is clear that I owe her everything. I imagined how constantly ... the conveyor belt, and endless gifts are pouring into it. Creepy. We brought something to Sasha from the supermarket, some kind of chewing gum. If the chewing gum is not given to her 1.5 times more, mutual insults begin, he begins to tear out her chewing gum, because it is larger, she begins to take it from him. Basically, it's a circus. And there's a crazy dog ​​running around. I have endless stories with small dogs. My wife loves small dogs. She keeps saying that a little dog is a dog. After the dog shits all the furniture and gnaws something there. Our current dog still has a marvelous ability to bark continuously. She is timid, stupid, and in this stupidity immensely charming. And when the children start yelling, she starts barking at them.

A. NASIBOV - From which the children yell even more.

M. GANAPOLSKY - And that very moment comes. You probably know my feelings at that moment, when Sasha is yelling at Katya, Katya is yelling at Sasha, Tamona (wife) is yelling at them, the dog is barking and at that moment the TV is still yelling, because Tamara is watching a Georgian program at that moment, where there is a parliamentary program, where Georgian parliamentarians are yelling at each other. At this moment, I experience a similar feeling that Grebenshchikov experiences when he travels to Tibet. I imagine he sits on a mountain and contemplates. And you're looking down. I contemplate this stinking dog, these cries of children. Then a roar is heard, and a plastic car falls apart on Sasha's head before our eyes. Sasha has round eyes. He does not open his mouth, but his mouth in order to sob. Before he takes a breath, Katya’s heart-rending cry is heard: “He started it first!” At the same time, we saw that he did not start anything, just a plastic car was taken. I am very grateful to toy manufacturers who make toys that are disposable. That is, it hits Sasha's head, and the car, a giant plastic KAMAZ, shatters into small pieces. Absolutely wonderful. There is a story here too. The main principle is that whoever comes to complain to us gets it. They stand for each other.

A. NASIBOV - But they have different weight categories: 2.5 years and 6 years.

A. NASIBOV - Oh, my God, about your children!

M. GANAPOLSKY - They drink blood.

A. NASIBOV - Good. Here is such a comprehensive and fundamental question from Alexandra from Yekaterinburg. She sent us a major question via the Internet even before the start of our program: “Matvey Yuryevich! What for you, as a young father, is the fundamental principle of education? Matthew Yurievich thought.

M. GANAPOLSKY - Yes, I didn’t think about it, I have already tried it, I am very glad that my wife has exactly the same understanding. It's hard to put it into words, but I would say so. Respect in a small creature that comes up to you, which is naughty, wants something, etc., an absolute understanding that this is a little man, small, but a little man.

A. NASIBOV - With your problems, thoughts ...

M. GANAPOLSKY - He is like you, only small. No anger if he does something wrong. In my life there were a sufficient number of people who spoke to me and explained. I remember one person told me not to yell at the children. I asked why? He says because it's a very scary day for them. I say what's wrong? He says let's do an experiment. I say what? He says you can squat down. I say yes. And squatted down. He stood next to me and looked at me. He says you see how he sees you. I understood a lot. I realized that this is a little man, and he must be treated with great respect, from the moment he begins to understand this respect. First, he needs to drive in some first ones a little ... the main thing is not to get angry.

A. NASIBOV - I hope not to drive it physically?

M. GANAPOLSKY - Sometimes physically.

A. NASIBOV - Do you spank sometimes?

M. GANAPOLSKY - I spank, because you can’t climb the stairs, you can “bo-bo”, and it will be “wow”. Or "baby". It is known that the Japanese have such a strange history. Vladimir Tsvetov, do you remember?

A. NASIBOV - Moreover, I was one of the last people who spoke to him.

M. GANAPOLSKY - Maybe it was in this conversation that he said this phrase, which I will now mention. He said in some of his speeches (or wrote - I don’t remember) that in Japan, children under 3 years old are allowed to do whatever they want, realizing that they are doing it, not realizing what they are doing, and after 3 years old - tough, like, cane discipline. I understand the first part, and in the second part I am more loyal.

A. NASIBOV - I don’t remember cane discipline in Japan, there, in my opinion ...

M. GANAPOLSKY - I don't know why I remembered it, that's why I said it. As for the second part, I proceed from the fact that they do not do ... I once had a conversation with my eldest son when he was already growing up. He told me, only I really ask you, there is one thing that annoys when you talk to me. I asked what? He says when you talk, sometimes you say that I do something on purpose. He says, remember, I never do anything on purpose, especially for you. So children... Often parents say, "you are on purpose." It is very rare for a child to do something on purpose. This is his reaction - this is his growing up. As you know, his hooliganism is his self-education, this is a test of relationships. Painting on the walls - yes, painting on the walls. And we need to understand that he doesn't paint on the walls on purpose. Maybe I feel fine with children and I understand that they are little people, but personalities, because I remember myself as a child. I had a radiola "Ural". Many older listeners...

A. NASIBOV - On thin legs?

M. GANAPOLSKY - No, it was such a cube with a good speaker.

A. NASIBOV - Nikolai Kotov, our director nods his head, he remembers.

M. GANAPOLSKY - There was a 78 rpm player. And my mom and dad were very fond of all sorts of records, we had Utesov, and Shulzhenko, and Timoshenko, and Berezin, Tarapunka and Shtepsel - a lot, a lot. And Lyalya Black. In general, there was a lot of everything. Let me remind you that such metal needles were inserted there. And a heavy pickup head was placed on this plate, and the sound was heard. I have such a memory in my childhood that I listen to this music, look around, and they begin to press this pickup with my hand, and shavings begin to come out of the record. At the same time, two feelings struggle in me: I understand that I am doing something terrible, but, nevertheless, this is some kind of incredibly sweet ... sporting interest. I understand that some kind of cognitive mechanism operated in me, which automatically operates in all children, why they climb. And when we heart-rendingly yell: “don’t touch it”, “put it down”, “I told you, don’t touch it”, “I’ll give you the 15th time” ... Stop, think about why he takes it. He takes it not because he does it to spite you. At the age of 3, he does not know how to do out of spite. He takes it because he likes the form, the content, something inside is cracking. Especially, as a technology lover, I am outraged when Katya came up, turned on and off the TV a thousand times, and Sasha - the remote control, buttons, etc. All parents know. And a mobile phone. How many mobile phones have sunk in the toilet. Music played, he walked, walked. After that, he went to the toilet, began to carefully lower this “la-la” into the toilet. Lowered several times, raised, "la-la" stopped. Comes and says "la-la". And from there the water flows. Well? Kill? After all, she is looking at what will happen if “la-la” is lowered into the water. When you talk about the upbringing system, I, Ashot, am not talking at all, I am talking about the principles that are important to me personally when dealing with a small person.

A. NASIBOV - I did not interrupt Matvey Ganapolsky on purpose.

M. GANAPOLSKY - Why interrupt if I say smart things.

A. NASIBOV - I hope so. I will not evaluate, the listeners will evaluate. They listened again, I respect them. And for the most part, they appreciate it, I join many of the audience's assessments. Marat Vagizov from Tatarstan also sent a message: “At the age of 30, I already have two sons: Aivaz and Rezvan, 9 and 7 years old, and I consider the belt the only correct method of education. Iron discipline. I am sure that they will never become drug addicts and will find their place in life. Gingerbread method - slobbers will grow up. Am I right? Thanks". Here is a letter sent by Marat from Tatarstan.

M. GANAPOLSKY - I can say one thing. I remember all the kindness of my father. I remember every good move my father made for me, and I remember every wrong move my father made for me. It may be some other system of education that I do not understand, this is such a Bolshevik approach. This is to drive children into obedience. The child must be obedient, because he must understand the motivation of the proposal of the system of actions that you offer him. Please hit them, but they will remember it. In general, the child remembers everything. No wonder there is such a wonderful saying as an anecdote: "Be careful with your children, because remember that it is they who determine in which "nursing home" you will live out your days."

A. NASIBOV - Good expression.

M. GANAPOLSKY - Therefore, before smacking them, think, maybe you have some kind of system of arguments. My wife and I use it pretty easily. I can tell you how. For example, Katya screams that she wants another chocolate bar, while refusing soup - a typical story. Or not, give another story. Right now, Katya wants to eat french fries at McDonald's, which is opposite us. This is the usual behavior of parents: no, you won’t go, eat soup, etc. We do it differently. In children, it turns out, pity and compassion are surprisingly developed. I say, Katya, well, who will go with you? She is touchy, well, you go. I say, Katya, take pity, look, I came from work, there is no face on me. She, well, let mom go. I say, look, now mom was cleaning, cooking, and now she made soup. Well, take pity on your mom. Katya is in despair: well, who will go with me? I say, well, let Sasha go with you. Katya angrily: he's small, you're all joking. I say, listen, I beg you very much, you can do me a favor. They love the word “favor”, they are small, it is very important for them that something depends on them in this life, so if they can give us some kind of gift, make us happy with something, then they go for it. I say do you love me? She through her teeth, yes. I say, you can eat soup now, eat soup today, but I promise you that we will go just because I'm tired, she understands what I'm saying, and mom is tired. She says when are you leaving? Then begins pure PR on my part. Tomorrow, as soon as the sun comes out from behind the mountain, immediately at 6 am. Okay.

A. NASIBOV - PR specialist in family relations.

M. GANAPOLSKY - Not a PR specialist, but I just understand. Our children, I will explain to you, grow up incredibly insecure in our Soviet families, because in the Soviet way we very often do not understand that these are individuals, that we are only small. And the most important thing for them: remember, the child runs up, pulls you, go and look. We have a ritual at home. I will tell you. Funny. But this ritual is repeated every day. When I ring the doorbell, there is a screech: "daddy!" And she both roll out. The door opens. And then it happens ... It's funny, but it's a lot of parents. In short, I have to stand up like Uncle Styopa, legs apart - this is a house. They must crawl under my feet five times on the landing, pushing each other away. Only after that I go into the house. Then I don’t undress, she grabs my hand and screams ...

A. NASIBOV - Pencil in the circus - he had a dog Klyaksa.

M. GANAPOLSKY - Here I have two dogs Klyaksa. She screams, go, look, I built some kind of house, etc. And I go cursing that moment. I go and look because I understand. Often I still shirk. I say let me undress, thinking that she will forget. She then drags this house to look anyway. For her, this is very important. Father came, mother came. They were getting ready. I remember my childhood. My father went on business trips. At 3 o'clock in the morning his phone rang. I woke up, I'm ashamed, I screamed, dad, is that you? I knew it was him. He, missing tobacco, he smoked “Prima” one after another, lived to be 86 years old. I screamed, did you bring me something? I didn't say "gift". I'm not as cool as Katya, Sasha still doesn't know how to say "gift". Something, you understand? I often argue with my wife, she goes to the supermarket, she always buys something for them. I consider it a waste of money. Then I watch how they grab it, I understand that she is doing the right thing.

A. NASIBOV - Good. Matvey, now is the time to take at least a couple of phone calls by calling 203-19-22. Let me remind you that the guest and owner of the Ekho Moskvy studio, Matvey Ganapolsky, is a very good father, from my point of view.

M. GANAPOLSKY - Yes, ordinary, I assure you!

A. NASIBOV - Ordinary means good.

M. GANAPOLSKY - Just before you receive calls, I want to say one thing. There was such a project “One family of the times of Vladimir Putin”. Radio listeners remember him. I want to say that I have never seen such people, such parents as they were in that project. There are 5, 6 children. And how they are brought up. And how did these people find that right demeanor with children when the children grew up normal, sane, calm, kind, humane. We have a person, and the lack of a person in him. And they grew up normal. That's where the parents were! ABOUT! What are you!

A. NASIBOV - 203-19-22 - live phone. We already have our first phone call. What is your name?

LISTENER - My name is Tatyana.

A. NASIBOV - Make your receiver a little quieter, please.

LISTENER - I want to tell Matvey Yuryevich. Here he says that he comes home from work ... About such a robot as yours, Leo Tolstoy said that people like you "live for the pleasure of time."

A. NASIBOV - So?

LISTENER - These are parasites and balabols.

A. NASIBOV - I understand. Thanks. Unfortunately, I cannot agree with you.

M. GANAPOLSKY - Answer me, Ashot, why should I listen to this? I told you not to call.

A. NASIBOV - Sorry. This is my program, and I believe that calls from listeners are absolutely necessary.

M. GANAPOLSKY - Ashot ...

A. NASIBOV - And then I hope that the next phone call will be from a person ...

M. GANAPOLSKY - The next will praise. I don't need it either.

A. NASIBOV - We will cut and interrupt in the same way. 203-19-22. I remind you that I really want your questions to be about the relationship between fathers and children. Goodnight. You are on the air.

LISTENER - Good evening. My name is Nana. Please tell me, is your relationship with your wife (I missed the beginning of your program) smooth, are they good in the national aspect?

A. NASIBOV - And we discussed and analyzed this in great detail in the first half of the program. You know, if you have access to the Internet, then go ahead and read the printout of our conversation. 203-19-22 - live phone. We listen to you. Goodnight. What is your name?

LISTENER - Hello. Goodnight. I'll turn the radio down now. My name is Radna. I live in St. Petersburg. About education. Unfortunately, my husband died. I have been raising a child (son) alone for 14 years. And there was such a case that I punished him very severely, he was 6 years old, the offense was very serious. I still remember it. You know, I have such a lump. I still feel this guilt. It was just terrible.

A. NASIBOV - I think that if each of us digs into our own memory, each of us will find similar experiments and experiences from our own biography. You know, I have the same thing. I don't know about Matthew.

M. GANAPOLSKY - But I don't. I have never offended my children unfairly.

A. NASIBOV - Well, here is the answer.

M. GANAPOLSKY - I will say more than that. Our listener is right. He remembers it, and so do you. Precisely because I remember what I was like as a child, that is why I choose not to make the same mistakes that were made to me.

A. NASIBOV - I also remember how I was in childhood and remember some mistakes that were made against me, but I myself made a lot of mistakes regarding my own children, which, by the way, our listener is right about, until now ...

M. GANAPOLSKY - I'll tell you briefly. I understand that time is running out. Misha arrives, he was still a schoolboy then (senior). He loved to ride a bike. He comes completely green. He says, dad, a very big misfortune has happened. For me, misfortune is only when someone dies, the rest is nonsense. I say what happened. It was a time when there were such markets everywhere: they just spread the fabric, and there was street trading. In short, he hit a stone with a wheel and fell on his side. Happens on a bike. When he fell on his side, the bicycle broke the vase. The woman was selling glass. And here he is looking at me. I told him. Well, sometimes he broke a vase. How much does it cost? That is, it was possible to revel in the full program. You already imagine these monologues. I could see from his face that he understood everything very well himself. In general, the child always understands that he did something bad. And he goes to you. This is what our “Ehovsky” psychologist talks about - the fear of fear. You go to your parents, they have not told you anything yet, but you are already afraid that they will say something terrible to you. In a child, you need to remove this reaction in order for the child to be frank with you. If he constantly feels, and he has developed a habit, that when he comes to you, he will hear your remarks, moralizing, useful advice ... Yes, they don’t need it. I made one conclusion in life. Do you know how we differ from our children? Not with the mind.

A. NASIBOV - Age, at least.

M. GANAPOLSKY - No. Remember the phrase that I will tell you. Not a very wise phrase, but fair. We do not differ in intelligence, they are already smarter than us, otherwise life would not move forward, science would not move forward. We differ only in experience. Therefore, the only thing that can be advised to them from some time on is some cases from their lives and say, boy, you can do this, then the costs will be like this, like this - the costs will be like that. Just as we have been trying unsuccessfully for 15 years in our radio listeners to cultivate the ability to think independently, the same must be done with children. It works better with kids.

A. NASIBOV - 203-19-22. I hope we hear another interesting phone call. Good evening, you are on the air.

LISTENER - Hello. Lidia Ivanovna worries you. I concluded that it is better for children when parents are older. I think they, having gained experience, somehow fit differently. It is unlikely that 18-year-old parents think in the same way as Matvey Yuryevich. I really envy his children.

A. NASIBOV - Thank you very much. 203-19-22. Fathers! Where are you? Join our conversation! Here, I hope, the first father called us. Goodnight.

LISTENER - Hello.

A. NASIBOV - Are you a father?

LISTENER - Yes, I am a father, I have two children.

A. NASIBOV - What is your name?

LISTENER – Ilya, my name is. I have two children: one is 12 years old, the other is 1.5 years old. I listen to Matvey Ganapolsky talk about his relationship with his daughter. There is such a book by Janos Korczyk "How to love a child". Of all the literature I have read on parenting, this book replaces all that literature. This is a reference book for parents. If anyone does not know, let him write it down.

A. NASIBOV - Thank you.

LISTENER - Can you tell? This relationship with her daughter, when she comes up and asks her dad if you love me, is not very good. When dad is still talking, promising something, PR. It's not a publicity stunt, it's a scam. My child already at the age of 1.5 feels that he will be deceived.

A. NASIBOV - You know, I have a question. I really hope that you learned to raise children not only by books. Books are undoubtedly a very useful experience. If a person will pass on a driver's license, only studying the rules of the road from books without practical experience, or learning to swim ...

LISTENER - Absolutely agree. I mentioned the book How to Love a Child by Janos Korczyk, because there are no recommendations and no answers to the question. There are only questions. There are hundreds of questions on each page so that people think for themselves, so that parents or future parents think what is in front of them.

A. NASIBOV - Thank you for your call. Matvey, we have less than 1.5 minutes left. We need to draw some conclusions. You have a word. What is the most important thing you would like to say.

M. GANAPOLSKY - No, let Kiselev summarize the results. I have nothing to say. We were just talking... This is not a lecture. Why do I think that all these phone calls and such interactivity have absolutely no meaning for this program, because I am not giving a lecture, and I am not Korchik, and I am not pretending to be Korchik. I do not tell people and do not give any practical advice, I just talk about my immodest life experience in terms of communicating with my children. Not even education, but communication. This is purely my experience. There are a huge number of people, and everyone acts in their own way. Good wonderful kids. Yes, they are all good and wonderful.

A. NASIBOV - I still allow myself to disagree about communication with the audience, because my principle is: smart people learn from their mistakes, and wise people learn from the mistakes of others. I would like to end our conversation with the words of Lilia from Kazan, who sent us the following words on a pager: “After I listened to Ganapolsky, I really wanted to get out of bed and kiss my daughter and granddaughter again and wish them good night.”

M. GANAPOLSKY - This is a wonderful story. By the way, I want to tell you that even if you wake them up now unexpectedly, they will remember it. Such an incredible surge of this love, which suddenly manifested itself in such a way.

A. NASIBOV - I apologize to those who sent us questions, we did not have time to answer them. There are really a lot of questions, unfortunately, our time is limited. All the best. I, Ashot Nasibov, say goodbye to you before 12 o'clock Friday already. Matvey Ganapolsky has been leading the U-turn program since the morning. He still needs to sleep. All the best.

Ukrainian borscht in Berlin can be eaten at the Odessa-mama restaurant. This, as far as I know, is the only Ukrainian restaurant in the capital of Germany. We are sitting at a table with my old friend Alik, he has been living here for almost thirty years. We wandered around the city all day and, finally, naturally ended up in Odessa-Mama. There is a Ukrainian buffet in the hall, laden with meat, fish, borscht with pampushkas, the Soviet "fur coat" and some other dishes unknown to me, for which one can give one's life.

Owning a restaurant Sasha And Natasha. Natasha in a past life is a food industry technologist, Sasha is a former policeman.

“Now I’ll tell you what kind of policeman he is,” he whispers to me. Alik. There are no such policemen. He took me fishing in the winter. We caught fish there, and the cold was like a dog, and we went to the car. I got into the cab and waited for us to go, but Sasha was still not there. I go out and see that he has laid out the tripod, kindled firewood and gutted the fish! Imagine, he guts the fish in the cold to make fish soup for me. I tell him - you're crazy, we can make the ear warm at home, and he replies that if the ear is not done right now, then it will not be the same ear. He is not a policeman, he is a cook. For him, if food isn't cooked right now, it's not food.

In the restaurant hall, mostly “ours” sit - they talk loudly, inserting German words and whole phrases into Russian speech. There are several Germans - they eat quietly, savoring, although they came in a group. The cries of drunken "ours" do not bother them. Sasha carries the grill with meat to the street - there is a grill and additional tables, and then sits down with us. Natasha sat down even earlier. She is stately and beautiful, especially in an embroidered shirt, which she wears as a challenge.

We're talking about food. Natasha talks about the secrets of making real Odessa borscht, but gradually we move on to politics. Politics does not affect the taste of real Odessa borscht, but it affects the visitors. Since the people in Berlin are different, the visitor, before ordering this very borscht, is often and unexpectedly interested in - and whose, in fact, is Crimea? This question sounds strange, because if you came to a Ukrainian restaurant, it is hard to imagine that supporters of the “little green men” have dug in there. At the same time, this visitor does not care what they will answer about the Crimea - the main thing for him is to sit and eat borscht as if he had just captured this restaurant filled with Banderists as part of the Russian army, and this borscht is a symbol of victory and indemnity from the vanquished, in the form of fat.

It's getting dark outside, the restaurant is crowded with customers. Although I would not call them visitors in the full sense. The visitor orders at least borscht. But these people come in, kiss Sasha and Natasha, order beer and coffee, and that's it. Some sit down with us, and then the political conversation over borscht sparkles with new facets.

Why do I eat the most delicious Ukrainian borscht in Berlin? Maybe it's really good there, where we are not

For example, an uncle in a plaid shirt tells me that all of Germany is bought Putin. Businessmen are bought out - they want to trade with Russia, politicians are bought - they want good relations with Russia. To my question, why the desire to trade and make friends should arise solely from Putin's money, the uncle does not answer, he only looks at me suspiciously, and, after a short pause, is interested in my position - and whose Crimea? My answer that Crimea is Ukrainian takes him by surprise: apparently, he expected me to be an inveterate “quilted jacket”. Then he begins to torment me with questions about Poroshenko, and Alik and I decide to run away from the uncle.

It's warm outside, we sluggishly walk along the shops that close early in Berlin. A young woman closes the Joachim Krause Antiques store, founded in 1865, the sign says. I try to understand why this Krause did not suffer from Marx, from the Nazis or Honecker, but then I remember that in Germany no one ever encroached on private property - that's how Krause survived.

– What do you think about Tymoshenko does she have a chance? - it turns out that the plaid shirt followed us all the time to snatch answers to the main questions of the universe.

- Valera, you got us! - Alik decided to stand up for me. – Do you have any other problems here in Germany?

“I’m retired, but it’s boring here, and there is life,” the plaid shirt answered, chasing. - Here pensioners have no problems, they are worn. I had a cataract removed last year, so I have never seen such a hospital in my life! But I am for Ukraine, and Putin is the aggressor.

Hearing this phrase, Alik suddenly smiled rapaciously and winked at me conspiratorially:

- And tell me Valera, you are a citizen of Russia, so who did you vote for?

- For Putin! Valera said clearly and immediately turned to me to explain the situation. “He teases me all the time, but I voted correctly. Putin is order, and Germany is full of refugees. Putin is smart and cunning, he will not let the Syrians into Russia. But I am for Ukraine, and Putin is the aggressor.

Alik sighed heavily, grabbed my sleeve and dragged me down the street.

A hissing sound was heard on the side of us on the road - a double-decker tourist bus landed on the “edge”, like an ocean ship, from which they slowly floated out, I can’t find another word, those same pensioners who, according to checkered Valera, had no problems. It turned out that there was a coffee shop, apparently, they had a long road ahead of them. The pensioners looked like in the picture: for some reason, not a single bald man, all in neat shirts, trousers with piping and moccasins. Women in trousers and light jackets. It even seemed to me that this was some kind of team of millionaires going to play golf. But they were similar not in faces, but in grooming. I'm used to other pensioners - angry and offended by a small pension. But only calmness was read on these faces.

I looked at them with the eyes of a Syrian refugee. Their appearance and behavior offended me, I wanted to leave.

“I haven’t finished my borscht,” I said coldly to Alik. - I want to eat it.

“The borsch has cooled down, but Sasha will warm everything up for you now,” Alik assured me and dragged me back to the “Odessa-Mama”.

It was already dark, we were sitting at the table, surrounded by a new portion of goodies. One "our" company was replaced by another, and the Germans still silently drank beer. Alik added vodka, we drank to Natasha and Sasha. Then they cut the paska and washed it down with cranberry juice. Rotaru sounded softly from the speaker, then someone unknown sang a restaurant version of Utyosov's "At the Black Sea". Our tormentor in a plaid shirt piled himself a full plate of meat.

– You know, Alik, I once asked myself how to feel an unfamiliar city? I raised my glass. - And I realized that through acquaintances and friends. And I'm always looking for people who will open the city for me. Rather, they will show themselves in this city. I do not understand and will not understand how the Germans live in Berlin, but I understand how you live. This is what Berlin is.

“Let me pack some food for you, because we don’t leave anything for the morning?” Natasha suggested as she approached.

We were loaded with bags and plastic cans, there was food for a week. Alik drove us to the hotel, and I clutched a huge tub of borscht in my hands, suggesting how wonderful life would be in the next three days - there was a microwave in the hotel room. How strange, I thought. Why do I eat the most delicious Ukrainian borscht in Berlin?

Maybe it really is good there, where we are not.

Matvey Ganapolsky,political publicist, journalist of "Echo of Moscow"

The views expressed in the "Opinion" section convey the views of the authors themselves and do not necessarily reflect the position of the editors.

09.04.2002
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Television cameras, filming, radio broadcasts, the search for interesting materials for their listeners and viewers - these are the daily worries of the well-known Matvey Ganapolsky. We know this TV and radio presenter from the programs Beau Monde, Gladiator Games, Detective Show and broadcasts on Ekho Moskvy. The maestro himself tells about all this and much more especially for our readers.

- Were you born and raised in Moscow?

No, my childhood was spent in Lvov. This wonderful city is located in Western Ukraine. Until 1939 it belonged to Poland. This city is something to be proud of. Lviv can be compared with such cities as Riga, Tallinn, that is, it can be attributed to the concept of "old city". These are always old houses and buildings. Fortunately, my childhood was spent outside the block architecture that we see in Moscow.

- Who were your parents?

My father is a worker, my mother is an office worker. The father is no longer alive. And my mother, God bless her, despite everything she has experienced in life, she is still holding on. The fact is that she remained, perhaps, the last witness to the tragic events at Babi Yar, which were perpetrated by the Nazis during the Great Patriotic War.

- What did your mother tell about this tragedy?

This terrible tragedy happened when my mother was twelve years old. Her childhood passed in Kyiv. When everyone was driven to Babi Yar, she, along with her mother, were also forced to go there. But, fortunately, people somehow pushed her out of the crowd, and my mother managed to get out of there. And her mother, that is, my grandmother, died during these events. And in general, during the war, I lost absolutely all my relatives. That is why, unfortunately, all my childhood I was deprived of grandparents.

- What traditions were in your parental home?

Both father and mother knew Yiddish, what was available and possible. This is a kind of tradition that existed then in Lviv. In those days there were no organized communities. With the policy of state anti-Semitism that was then carried out, this was simply impossible. But even at that time, as, indeed, now, everyone followed the traditions that were convenient for them in order to once again gather with friends, have a good drink and eat delicious food. Therefore, when I was little, my relatives celebrated Soviet, Ukrainian, and Jewish holidays. In this sense, my life in Lviv was very comfortable.

We just celebrated Pesach. Do you have any childhood memories of this holiday?

Unfortunately, I have no memories of this holiday. Once I was talking with a lady, whom I respect very much, who, despite the events that are now taking place in Israel, is trying to spend more time in this country. I asked her: “What are you doing there?” To this question, she replied: "I'm doing self-expression there." This also applies to me. I can’t say that I somehow felt nationally. It was Soviet blur. The Jewish tradition was outside of me. I don't know Yiddish, let alone Hebrew. Now, when we gather with friends, or when I have the honor to lead some Jewish holidays, I catch myself thinking that I am getting to know this for the first time. But still I am a product of the Soviet era. I know the Polish language, Polish and Ukrainian culture, but I began to get acquainted with the Jewish tradition already at an adult age, when the relevant books appeared in front of me, when it became possible to travel somewhere.

- When did you first realize that you were a Jew?

Of course, in childhood, when they called me a "Jewish muzzle." Every Jew faces this in childhood. To be honest, I didn't really react to it. It was absolutely incomprehensible to me how a Ukrainian differs from a Jew. Therefore, he treated them as ordinary insults that exist between schoolchildren. Further it was more difficult. All the delights of anti-Semitism that existed in the Soviet era, I felt on myself.

How did you envision your future after high school?

Marriages are made in heaven, as they say, and so it is with the profession. A person goes to his profession by a winding path. To this day, I've made it into some encyclopedias as a radio journalist and TV presenter, but at the time, I couldn't even think of it. No one knows what will happen to him in three or four years. Could I have guessed, working as a theater director, and my education is just such that I will lead some kind of programs. It's just the way things are. As Ilf said through the mouth of his hero, "life plays with man, and man plays the trumpet." Therefore, when I graduated from high school, I did not understand where I should move on. So I had no idea where I would go, but I knew exactly where I would not go. I felt that the exact sciences were not for me. In those days when the time of the so-called thaw was ending, in 1971 there was a dispute between physicists and lyricists. So I felt more like a lyricist than a physicist. My friend, now he is a well-known TV presenter in Ukraine, Ilya Noyabrev, once told me: “What are you suffering? Go study at the circus school, it's yours" . And I, as if in a fog, just like in childhood, when the brightest things associated with fear are remembered, I remember all this. I remember all the pictures associated with high emotional stress. For example, I remember how, as a very young child, I ran down the corridor, slipped and badly hurt my shoulder on the refrigerator. And I still remember where this refrigerator stood, how I fell, how sorry I was. As if in a fog, I remember the corridors of the circus variety school, the teacher who told me to read something. I read the fable "The Donkey and the Nightingale" by Krylov, and they accepted me. As a result, he became a pop entertainer, but this did not suit me in life. I want to say that I am one of the people who can and cannot work on television and radio. In general, I thought a lot about how to live, how to build a life model. After all, there is a saying: first you work for your authority, then it works for you. Or, in order to be noticed, you have to jump up and down. But what does it mean to bounce? What is a radio host: you and the microphone. You, devoid of all expressive means, except for voice, intonation and some kind of intellectual baggage. Well, also your mask, your genre in which you work. On the air, I'm not the same as in reality. What is television? It's the same plus a picture. In this case, you must take care of a good suit. I teach at the Independent Film and Television School and I always tell my students that their desire to appear on the TV screen is certainly commendable, but there is such an important point - people, God forbid, with higher education can watch you. Therefore, it is necessary to understand that you are working for a very different audience. Therefore, I am very glad that life has dealt with me very wisely. When I became needed, in demand and, most importantly, ready (if I hadn’t been ready, I would have simply been fired), it was then that I ended up at the microphone, and then at the TV screen with my “Beau Monde”, “Gladiator Games”, “ Big time”, “Detective show”, which was twice nominated for Taffy. It is said that Yeltsin was a master of building levers and balances in power. So life itself knows how to do such things better than Yeltsin. When you are angry, you don’t understand why they don’t let you go somewhere, most often you are to blame in such situations, and not the intrigue. Being aware of this helps me to understand that TV and radio are just a door to connect with an audience of millions, but only when I'm ready for it. For example, the Detective Show project ran for three years on Ekho Moskvy, and then for three years we brought it to mind before it appeared on the screen. Now it is a successful project that is popular with viewers and has high ratings. Therefore, it is necessary to be more critical of yourself, which I try to do.

- Do you agree with the opinion that there are a lot of Jews on television and radio?

Perhaps I do not agree with this. I would say differently. Very often, Jews turn out to be bright, noticeable people in the television and radio space. But that's just a plus for them.

- So why, then, do they become prominent people?

Difficult to answer... This, of course, does not mean the advantage of the nation or Gd's chosen people. I think the Lord is least concerned with Jewish career aspirations in the media. Moreover, traditionally the Jews were masters in business, they also were and remain wonderful doctors and scientists. The very history of the nation, endless persecution, dispersion and forced assimilation, perhaps genetically made the Jews the most dynamic, successful nation. Everywhere they are strangers, everywhere they are their own. Many books have been written about this. But their appearance in the media is pure experiment. People cannot be deceived. When they write about Gusinsky or Berezovsky, they forget about the oligarchs of other nationalities, who have a multi-billion dollar fortune. But remember only about these people. After all, it is very convenient to say that the Jews ruined Russia. Well, what can I say when you see Zhvanetsky - but there is nothing, he is just a genius. He is above all, but I do not want to compare anyone. Here the criterion is this: those who are interesting to look at are popular. And if there are more Jews in this stratum, then, I'm afraid, nothing can be done about it, because they do not get jobs themselves, they are not owners of channels. Anyone can hire a bright person. Be bright, and then you will have no competitors.

- Did you have any desire to emigrate from the former USSR?

It was. The thing is, I've seen a lot of people. When I already lived in Moscow, I had a Zaporozhets car and I had to endlessly escort people to Sheremetyevo Airport. We said goodbye... We said goodbye forever. These were my friends. They were leaving, escaping from this suffocating Soviet country where shocking things were happening. For example, even joining the Komsomol was carried out according to the order for Jews. That is, the order included a certain number of workers, employees and ... Jews. Also with admission to the institute. In general, the country has perished, and no one regrets it, except for the unfortunate pensioners who are not paid a normal pension, but I believe that the pension will eventually be worthy and with this lifestyle. Somehow we will recruit for people who gave their strength and health not to every Brezhnev, but to the country. Russia survived the Second World War, today's pensioners raised the ruined economy. They worked hard. So I also had such an idea - to emigrate. I remember an amazing story, in which I and a man whose name I don’t remember, but what I will tell you, was the absolute truth. One day we were sitting with him in the kitchen, and I told him how I wanted to leave this country, and gave countless reasons. He listened to me attentively, and then smiled and said: “If you want my prediction: you won’t go anywhere from here”. I was dumbfounded, I did not understand why he said that. This man turned out to be right. Today I am very glad that I live in a country where it makes no sense to leave. It's just that the country has become normal, and the point is not in the economy, but in the fact that slogans have ceased to play the main role. Human dignity began to be valued, what you represent is how you are evaluated. Now, when I see how they are returning in batches or almost returning, I only feel joy in my soul. And I meet friends again, I have the opportunity to visit them - it's wonderful.

- How do you assess the skill of the writer Zhirinovsky and Solzhenitsyn on the Jewish question?

I have read their works. The fact is that these books are written by completely different people. Vladimir Volfovich is a mask man. It is very difficult to understand what he really means when he writes. In addition, he was on the air with me, and I saw how his point of view changes during the conversation. Moreover, it is very plastic, smoothly flowing from one opinion to another. For him, the most important thing is originality, so I think his book does not reflect his thoughts on this or that issue. He would have written a completely different book 20 minutes after he wrote the first one. As for Solzhenitsyn, this is a different matter, and his book must be taken seriously. I am grateful to him for the fact that an attempt was made to conduct a deep historical study of the life of Jews in the space of Russia. The life of two societies has been studied, if we take the Jews as a society and the society of all the others. Many reacted to it quite hysterically, some managed to call it anti-Semitic, but I think that it should be treated like any book by Solzhenitsyn from the point of view of historical research, of course subjective, but do not scold - write your own. Moreover, we must thank the famous Russian writer for finding the time and writing a book about the life of Jews in Russia. I have great respect for such things.

- Do you take part in Jewish parties?

On the eve of Passover, I was invited by my friend Pavel Feldblum to this holiday. So I am invited to such events, and I take part in them. Sometimes the following happens: I sit at some Jewish holiday and, pushing my neighbor, I ask: “What are we actually celebrating today?” I confess, but for me the Jewish tradition has not yet been explored to the depths, but I visit such parties with pleasure. Moreover, I consider it my duty to go there, and it is very interesting for me there.

- How do you feel about interethnic marriages?
- Amazing. It so happened that my first wife is no longer with us, she passed away. My second wife is a purebred Georgian. There is a very large Jewish diaspora in Georgia, but my wife has nothing to do with them. We get along well, we understand each other.

Family education provides for some categories of the formation of a little man. At the heart of the family commandments. It is teaching what is good and what is bad. This is the first knowledge of good and evil. A lot depends on the parents here. What is the morality of the parents, such is the morality of the children. My eldest son is twenty-one years old, and I am very glad that I have raised a wonderful person. He is a cameraman, works for TV-6. I am absolutely calm for him. His actions never caused condemnation, but only surprise. I never told him no, I tried to explain why no. The parental principle “no, because I said so” will hit the parents later. Children will say to them: "I do it because I said so". I never forgot how I was as a child. Therefore, today, when my little daughter pours half a bottle of expensive perfume on herself and we are ready to strangle her at that moment, she comes out and, holding out this bottle to us, smiling, says: "What a beautiful smell!" She doesn't know the word nice yet. At this moment the girl is happy. We understand that there is nothing to condemn her for. It seems to me that parents need to know two things: to teach children compassion and to understand that your child will still be better than you and ahead of his parents. It is necessary not to interfere with his movement. If he dyes his hair, wears rings in his ear, this is not at all because he does not respect you, but he simply wants to be more beautiful, better. The most important thing is to educate the child - leadership. Tell him: “You have to be the leader. If you do it yourself, you'll get it." If you endlessly steer the child, then it will be secondary, but after all, the parents will eventually die, and the child will have to live alone. My son now lives separately and builds his life as he sees fit. I believe that this is correct. It is not for nothing that American children leave their families at a very early age, they find themselves alone in the life system, making their own way. But I also appreciate the family, when, in country traditions, everyone gathers under a green lamp and drinks tea. Although I don’t have a dacha, I just tell beautiful pictures.

- Is your son interested in tradition?

I tried to bring up in him, in my opinion, an important thing - cosmopolitanism. I know that such things are condemned by many, but this is my choice, and here neither Orthodox Jews, nor Ukrainian Catholics, nor Russian Orthodox priests can do anything with me. Due to the fact that I lived in a multinational environment, I wanted to educate in him, first of all, the feeling of God in myself. After all, everything that we do, as one wise man said, we do for G-d, whom you feel in yourself. This is some kind of ideal against which you check your actions. It seems to me that life has developed in such a way that the Jewish tradition was to sit at the table and drink delicious wines and eat good stuffed fish. Everything else is in his mind. Of course, when we went to Israel with him and saw the Wailing Wall, got acquainted with the history of this country, ended up on the top of the Mossad mountain, we certainly felt a sense of belonging to this great history. Maybe many lovers of tradition will not like my words, but I do not consider it necessary to wear a kippah. It is worse when a person outwardly is the biggest traditionalist, and acts such that it is amazing how this person still lives on earth. G-d is in our conscience. When one becomes ashamed, this is the real manifestation of the Divine. Where does shame come from? A person loves himself, and, it would seem, push people with his elbows and run forward, divide and rule. So no, suddenly there are some moments when a person becomes ashamed of bad deeds and even thoughts. This is G-d.

- How do you like kosher cuisine?

I like it very much, and especially because I don’t distinguish between kosher and non-kosher. I have to trust what they tell me. It is said that when you eat kosher food, a whole ritual takes place, which is so pleasing to the soul and is believed to be reflected in the taste.

- How did you celebrate the Passover that just passed?

The day before, I was invited to visit. There was a kosher meal and lots of fun.